Lumifer comments on Open thread for December 17-23, 2013 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: ciphergoth 17 December 2013 08:45PM

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Comment author: [deleted] 24 December 2013 07:25:07PM *  6 points [-]

The Chesterton's Fence argument is about knowing the purpose of something and being able to understand the consequences of changing it. With older traditions both are harder.

This is turning the argument on its head.

The point isn't that knowing a purpose for something is a reason to keep the thing. If we know the reason for it and judge it good, of course we shall keep it. Banal. If we know a reason for a thing, and judge it bad, then the argument isn't an encouragement to keep it either. No Chesterton's Fence is the argument that us not knowing the reason behind something is a reason to keep it. Applying it to things, for which we easily learn why they are there, is pretty much redundant as far as heuristics go.

Let me quite directly, from his novel The Thing (1929). In the chapter entitled, “The Drift from Domesticity” he writes:

In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it."

Comment author: Lumifer 24 December 2013 11:53:24PM 2 points [-]

Chesterton's Fence is the argument that us not knowing the reason behind something is a reason to keep it.

Kinda. I actually read it as an argument for passivity unless you know what you're doing.

Not knowing the reason for something is a "reason to keep it" -- well, it's a reason to not do anything. If that something gets destroyed by, say, a force of nature, would Chesterton's Fence tell you to rebuild it? No, I don' think so.

The Chesteron's Fence is primarily a warning against hubris, against pretending to contain all the reasons of the world in your head. It is, basically, an entreaty to consider unknown unknowns, especially if you have evidence of their workings in front of you.

Comment author: [deleted] 25 December 2013 08:48:37AM 4 points [-]

Not knowing the reason for something is a "reason to keep it" -- well, it's a reason to not do anything. If that something gets destroyed by, say, a force of nature, would Chesterton's Fence tell you to rebuild it? No, I don' think so.

Force of nature is misleading in the context of where it is likely to be applied. No social norms or institutions subsist without maintenance. But let me keep it and tweak it a bit, if you could easily prevent the force of nature destroying the fence, would you say the argument encourages you to do so?