MarkusRamikin comments on Doublethink (Choosing to be Biased) - Less Wrong

33 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 14 September 2007 08:05PM

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Comment author: Grognor 30 October 2011 06:46:25AM *  8 points [-]

I downvoted your comment, and here is why.

Less Wrong is, compared to the rest of the internet, extremely troll-free. But they still show up, you see, and when they do, the only acceptable response is to vote down. Not to reply, just to vote down.

Not every comment is worth seeing. Those that aren't worth seeing definitely need to be downvoted. But that's not the only reason to downvote a comment.

I downvote when:

  • a comment is just a joke and is not a gutbuster (inappropriate for Less Wrong)
  • someone on the losing side of an argument isn't even trying to update his beliefs
  • a comment not an attempt at new insight (can be either useless praise or useless contradiction)
  • a user is posting for the sake of karma
  • a comment is employing false premises (as yours is just now)
  • a comment is annoying (you again)

I hope I helped, and I hope you, when downvoted in the future, think about why first before asking for an explanation. It happens to everyone, and there's a good reason it happens to everyone: nobody makes good comments every single time he says something. Nobody!

I think on Less Wrong there is a very strong tendency to give away karma much too freely, which encourages the act of posting with the partial motivation of gaining karma. Even if it's not often the entire motivation, for that reason I wish that personal karma totals were not readily available information.

One must also be wary of too much pacifism. In that post, Eliezer describes beliefs I've grokked long before ever discovering Less Wrong.

Edit: On second thought, I'm retracting that downvote, because you tried to provide new insight.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 30 October 2011 08:40:19AM 2 points [-]

a user is posting for the sake of karma

I'm curious, if you don't mind elaborating, what sort of posts do you have in mind? It's a little contradictory to me because to get karma, you need to post something people will find worth upvoting...

Comment author: Grognor 30 October 2011 12:49:58PM 4 points [-]

It goes along a little bit with joke comments, if you follow. I can't for-sure know what the motivations behind any given post are (surely some motivation is to receive karma even on good comments), but strong warning signs that a comment was posted mostly to receive karma include, roughly in order of strong indicators to weak indicators:

  • comment is very short
  • comment includes an emoticon
  • comment is intended as humor
  • comment that expresses reasons for having a belief that everyone at Less Wrong already has
  • comment has little actual content compared to number of words
  • (related to previous point) comment has no content except agreeing/disagreeing
  • comment has signals of pseudo-modesty such as, "perhaps", "maybe", "I think", "it seems", "possibly", etc.
  • comment is pure speculation
  • comment is made after previous ones, where an edit to a previous comment would have been appropriate (users cannot upvote a single comment multiple times, but multiple comments by a single author are fair play)
  • comment mentions karma
  • comment speaks in passive voice

Multiple items on this list prime me for down-voting behavior.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 01 November 2011 12:43:46PM 2 points [-]

Thanks and upvoted. Since reading this subthread (and that post you linked to) I've noted a significant increase in my willingness to downvote, and it's partly because I started noticing more of what you're talking about.

Although... I'm not in any important disagreement with you, but I'd rather make it clear that I don't think there's anything shameful about wanting and enjoying karma. After all, the point of karma is that it's supposed to motivate people, else why have a karma system? It's more that, regardless of what motivated a poster to write it, a post with no content (or otherwise not worth seeing) is a bad thing. All the other symptoms you mention just make me pay closer attention to whether a post has meaningful content.

When I put myself in the shoes of someone criticised for making one of those posts, I think it'd feel more fair to be told what was objectively wrong with the post itself, than to just be accused of karma-whoring; what could you possibly say to that, even if the accusation were in error?

Comment author: [deleted] 07 April 2012 08:43:20PM 0 points [-]

comment is made after previous ones, where an edit to a previous comment would have been appropriate (users cannot upvote a single comment multiple times, but multiple comments by a single author are fair play)

Editing an old comment won't show up in the Recent Comments either, so by posting a new comment more people will read it.