army1987 comments on [Link] More ominous than a [Marriage] strike - Less Wrong

6 Post author: GLaDOS 04 January 2014 05:34PM

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Comment author: GLaDOS 04 January 2014 05:37:05PM *  6 points [-]

I want to emphasis that because men have significantly more outliers when it comes to achievement and social outcomes (both positive and negative ) , we should expect such a change in culture to ceteris paribus result in a net decrease in very exceptional achievements. Young men are also responsible for the vast majority of violent crime. We should expect delayed marriage and drop in marriage to push in the direction of more violence as well.

Comment author: [deleted] 04 January 2014 11:34:00PM *  0 points [-]

C'mon, how many of the Field medallists were doing maths in order to earn as much money as possible in order to get a bride? (I agree that that's probably what's going to happen in the medium-long term, but for different reasons.)

Comment author: GLaDOS 05 January 2014 10:35:26AM *  10 points [-]

You are being suspiciously simplistic here. Needing to work hard to get a bride is one of the things that most vitally supports a culture of work ethic among men. Very few other things seem to have as big an impact. Most Fields medalists probably didn't work hard primarily because they wanted to attract a wife, though I bet many of them actually did. But the culture of work ethic being normative for men certainly seems vital to supporting their efforts!

To summarize:

  1. Men can attract women with hard work (note not about money per se, it can be status)

  2. The above is one of the strongest factors that contributes to a cultural expectation of hard work being normative for men

  3. This has strong impact on the output of high performers

If it wasn't for the ruthless class segregation in the modern West, where people with high genetic potential are quickly identified and sorted by the academic system into subcultures where men attracting mates with hard work still happens things would probably be pretty bad. If you don't think this happens I would direct you to Charles Murray's book Drifting Appart. And even the upper classes are drifting away from this model, this looks to me like a social disaster in the making. Things will overall still get better due to other factors in the medium run, but the opportunity costs are terrible. (<_<)

Comment author: [deleted] 05 January 2014 10:54:32AM *  3 points [-]

But the culture of work ethic being normative for men certainly supported them!

I dunno about that; after all they were mathematicians, not investors. Historically mainstream society hasn't exactly swooned at “nerds”.

I can only speak for myself. Unlike most people, I don’t “work” at all, in the sense of doing anything with the conscious goal of making money. All I do is think about what interests me, and discuss the results of that thinking with other people. As long as governments (and philanthropists like Mike Lazaridis) are willing to pay me for my non-work, I’m happy to take their money. If they ever stop paying me, I guess I’ll have to find some other source of income.

-- Scott Aaronson

Throughout history most of the great art, music, science, literature, mathematics and technology was produced by guys who would today be classed as MGTOW.

-- MGTOW.com

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 05 January 2014 06:48:52PM 0 points [-]

the opportunity costs are terrible

That presumes economic growth is positive, which is not obvious.

Comment author: lmm 07 January 2014 11:15:52PM 2 points [-]

I remember one ha-ha-only-serious from my mathematical days: Sex is just a sublimation of the urge to mathematics. (And it's long been observed that even among young mathematicians, their output falls off dramatically if and when they marry).