Eugine_Nier comments on Fascists and Rakes - Less Wrong

39 Post author: philh 05 January 2014 12:41AM

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Comment author: Eugine_Nier 06 January 2014 01:59:14AM -2 points [-]

Nobody actually thought it is net utilitarian benefit to throw people in concentration camps

If we throw the people with undesirable trait X into concentration camps, there will be fewer people with trait X in the future. If trait X is something that tends to contribute to negative utility, e.g., stupidity, propensity to lie, etc., this will increase utility.

nobody really thinks today it is a net utilitarian benefit to put people in prison for doing something where no party was harmed.

If this is meant to be a reference to the war on drugs, then the net benefit is decreasing the availability and social acceptance of for Eliezer's argument for why "devil's offers" should not be legal.

Comment author: private_messaging 06 January 2014 02:22:00AM *  0 points [-]

this will increase utility.

Or decrease utility, if the decreased population results in lower utility. Or increase utility less than some alternatives.

Likewise with the other examples; while you can of course assert about any action, no matter how harmful, that it is a net benefit (in a far enough future), trying to achieve a net benefit leads to different actions than trying to achieve the benefit for the sake of the group(s) that you personally belong to, and this difference shows very clearly.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 08 January 2014 04:14:49AM -1 points [-]

Likewise with the other examples

BTW, I at least partially agree with the argument against of drug legalization.

Comment author: private_messaging 12 January 2014 11:46:42AM *  -1 points [-]

The arguments that were originally used are what I refer to, not really the recent debates where old choices are rationalized on different grounds.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 12 January 2014 07:10:46PM -2 points [-]

Near as I can tell, this is very similar to the argument I made with some comments about how propensity to fall to said "devil's offers" was correlated with race.