This is a topic I care a lot about, thank you for bringing it up
I've been an entrepreneur for 5 years. I started out like most Software Developers - by starting a startup. After a few years, I became convinced that this is NOT the best way to achieve the outcome you're talking about (financial independence, aka ~5mil USD).
My basic problem with your post is simple, and others have pointed it out - you can make up all the numbers you want, but empirically, MOST startups fail. The usual figure given is 10% of startups fail, but this is a gross simplification, and I tend to think the number is much higher. More importantly, the number of years that it takes to fail can be long - the number of years before a successful exit is usually >5. Failures can happen earlier, but the worst-case scenario is to "fail at the last minute".
To convince me that you're going to achieve your goal within 10 years, you have to show that for some reason, you'll do better than the statistics suggest.
The problem with #1 is you have no real reason to think you'll do better than anyone else. This is where a lot of people get lost - they hear this statement, they nod, but they think to themselves &q...
You're taking a very inside-view approach to analyzing something that you have no direct experience with. (Assuming you don't.) This isn't a winning approach. Outside view predicts that 90% of startups will fail.
Startups' high reward is associated with high risk. But most people are risk averse, and insurance schemes create moral hazard.
Inside view: "If I enumerate the things I think can make a startup fail and estimate probabilities, failure seems unlikely"
Outside view: "If I look at actual startups, empirically 90% of them fail, so failure is likely"
Given all of this, I think that if you're smart and hard working, you should have at least an 80-90% chance at succeeding at a startup.
Uhm, I don't think you're multiplying together the likelihood that you don't fail in each of the ways you outlined. You got so close by identifying all the hurdles you have to go through - and then instead of doing the math, you basically said "these look like stuff that can get overcome by a smart and hard working individual" and slapped the "80-90%" label on it.
I counted 21 distinct ways you said a startup can fail. 0.99^21 = 0.8. I'm pretty confident you envisioned more than one person failing in that way out of a hundred.
Doing a successful startup is hard. Surpassing the default 90% lack-of-major-success rate for experienced startup founders, startup founders who are nephews of VCs, startup founders who impress even VCs, etcetera is hard. The best of our community have not yet demonstrated that they have surpassed this level. It could be that with sufficiently systematic training our community could achieve outsized returns by not just being specific but also acquiring sufficient skill levels of See Through Conventions and Avert Office Politics and Use Conditioning Correctly and Be Really Original and Cooperate With Cofounders and MurphyJutsu and Learn From Others Experience and Be Calibrated and so on. It's not the sort of thing where you can read LW and breeze through it. Your post was downvoted because it displayed a tremendous ignorance of the problem's magnitude, trying to hit a 16-pound nail with a 4-ounce hammer.
"Given all of this, I think that if you're smart and hard working, you should have at least an 80-90% chance at succeeding at a startup."
Your method is bad- you have come up with some imaginary numbers and not addressed the obvious difference with reality, except with the qualifier that you mean people who are "smart & hardworking".
Surprisingly, when I went looking, you might be partially correct: at least for people who really are smart and hardworking and for certain values of "success". To look at the Ycombinator list - the number of "failures" or dead companies is very low and this probably provides a decent filter in that they are as experienced as anyone in identifying people who are smart and hardworking in the ways relevant for a startup.
The huge caveat is of course that nearly all startups don't get funded by ycombinator and "not dead yet" is not comparable to "success".
Making up imaginary numbers and then coming up with a rationalisation for those numbers is still a horrible way of making an argument though. Worse, you haven't explained why your made-up number is so different from the commonly quoted made up number that 90% of startups fail.
This post by Yvain is my cached thought in response to "Why don't more rationalists do good thing X?"
Yvain writes:
One factor we have to once again come back to is akrasia. I find akrasia in myself and others to be the most important limiting factor to our success. Think of that phrase "limiting factor" formally, the way you'd think of the limiting reagent in chemistry. When there's a limiting reagent, it doesn't matter how much more of the other reagents you add, the reaction's not going to make any more product. Rational decisions are practically useless without the willpower to carry them out. If our limiting reagent is willpower and not rationality, throwing truckloads of rationality into our brains isn't going to increase success very much.
I suspect that your limiting factor for being successful at a start-up probably has something more to do with raw intelligence, having a good work ethic and good business partners, making the right connections, or things like being in the right field at the right time [citation needed]. The only evidence I have for this is that in the successful silicon valley start-ups I have observed, the founders have always been ha...
I am a web programmer / designer. I work at a startup, and I have attempted several (failed) website projects. I will offer an "inside view" from my own experience.
My main failed website was a cool idea. Everyone said it was cool. Everyone said they would use it. So I spent months building the functionality. Then I started working on the design and UI. As a newbie to design, the web design and UI sucked. The site was useable, but nobody cared except a couple friends. The Facebook page got around 5-10 likes. I realized that the design sucked and it would take a rewrite to improve it, but I couldn't justify the time expenditure.
I tried a more content-oriented site as another project. My graphic/web design skills were better, so I was no longer embarrassed to send the site around to people I knew. Most of my friends read anything I posted on the site, but I couldn't very far outside my friend circle in audience. Ran out of energy to promote the site to a wider audience. Final metrics: 70 likes for the FB page, a few Twitter followers, 100 hits a day from Google (mostly bounces), and a few cents from affiliate links (and this was not because someone bought one of the produc...
You make a lot of theoretical arguments but don't talk at all about the fact that most of the startups VC's fund fail sooner or later.
If all it takes to have a startup with a 80-90% chance of a $5-10M exit is checking whether the funder is smart and is hard working, VC's should have higher success rates.
You seem wildly optimistic. Have you got an impartial outsider to do a premortem on your startup?
What you posted is not a premortem, it's the opposite of it. Assume that a year or two from now your enterprise has failed. What caused it to fail? E.g. insufficient cash flow, lack of school buy-in, lack of investor interest, regulatory obstacles, competing services, failure to execute... For the duration of the exercise you have to suspend your natural optimism and truly believe that bad things happened. Can you do that? If not, then the 90% failure rate statistic definitely applies to you.
A lot of people are commenting on the feasibility of clearing all these hurdles, but I've got a different reason for steering clear. (It's the same reason I avoid jobs on Capitol Hill, though I live in DC). Startups require a heckuva lot of time at their inception. The thing I'm buying instead is time with my friends.
I'm in my 20s, I make enough to have a reasonable standard of life and to save/give, but not enough to retire dramatically early, by any means. My work doesn't follow me home after work, it's not the main focus of my attention, and that's just the way I like it.
I'll also add that investing a lot of your 20s into a really time-consuming job (startups, i-banking, Capitol Hill) may really slow down your chance to date and discern marriage with a partner. Again, not a tradeoff I wanted to make.
My motivation behind this post stems from (Aumann's agreement theorem)
It shouldn't, for hu-mans Aumann's is more like a dark artsy inspirational poster of "YOU can do ANYTHING if you just believe in yourself!" than it is a relevantly applicable theorem (the wiki article is in need of an overhaul).
You mixed up the syntax for links: Parantheses for the link text and brackets for the link itself.
I did a text search for "fail fast" and nobody seems to have said it in the discussion below yet, and I would be shocked if you hadn't heard that buzzword before, but it means nothing more than this: your business idea is a sort of hypothesis, and you want to test your hypothesis as quickly and cheaply as possible. You would actually prefer to fail today if you could, so that you could be over and done with this and you could move on to the next thing and not waste any more time and money. "If it's a bad idea, you want to know it's a bad i...
http://lesswrong.com/lw/1p5/outside_view_as_conversationhalter/
I'm not even claiming that the inside view yields better predictions. I'm just saying, "let's try it". What I'm getting, from the comments is "no, you shouldn't try it". To claim that it's not even worth trying, is to claim that the inside view has such a low likelihood of working, that it isn't even worth your time/energy.
And for the record, I'm taking a Weak Inside View.
Real world rationality (defined as winning) requires very good people skills. This is something I expect the vast majority of LW community to not have (sorry, mates, but our archetypical member is a male CS student with no partner).
I think it is a shame this post is downvoted. I mean, while it is clearly over optimistic, I think that the systematic way it breaks down various ways you could fail is useful.
In recent years a huge number of computer technology startups are effectively being subsidized by free money sloshing around the monetary system searching desperately for anything resembling a return in a low interest rate environment. That plus human psychology equals massive bubble valuations that are horrifically unstable and have remarkably little basis in reality.
I don't think you can predict going forward in time that such circumstances would last.
EDIT: Also, isn't the above post pretty much a textbook example of the planning fallacy?
What I've gotten from the comments is that you guys don't think it's smart to take an inside-view. That's a separate argument in itself, but what I'm trying to do in this post is to take an inside view, so please take that as a given and comment on the components themselves.
I agree with VAuroch that this won't help much, because in general taking the inside view is a bad idea.
But if you want a few examples of places you've gone wrong - both getting a good idea, and executing a business, any business, are much harder than you imagine. For example, you wrote:
"Failure to think specifically about benefits." "The big issue here is the first bullet point. As spelled out by Eliezer's article, people are horrible at thinking specifically about the benefits that their idea will bring customers. They're horrible at moving down the ladder of abstraction. They think more along the lines of "we connect people" instead of "we let you talk to your friends". Even YC applicants (probably the best startup accelerator in the world) suffer from this problem immensely. I think that this problem is the single biggest cause of failure for startups. (They say that 90% of startups fail? Well >99% of people can't think concretely.) However, I think that it's something that could be avoided with willpower, reading the LessWrong sequences, and taking some time to practice your new habit."
Well, not thinking specifically is one issue, sur...
Thanks for the quality critiques!
Regarding the design things, I agree with you. I basically just started learning programming and design this summer and I'm definitely flawed in each of them. I would like one of my first hires to be a designer, but I do think that the current design satisfices (won't wow, but won't draw people away). Do you?
Also, there are some ways in which I think my design is much better than that of my competitors. For example, on http://www.unigo.com/, it takes 2 clicks to pull up a college page (College Guide => type in search) when it should just be a search bar on the top right. Also, my site lets you browse by question, rather than by reviewer. And another one, when you're on a school's page, you could toggle the information section rather than having to click it and leave the page you were on.
The focus isn't that clear. As a visitor I can't tell what I'm supposed to be doing. Am I supposed to search for a college? Click on "colleges"? I understand it's about picking a college, but I don't see what I'm supposed to do next.
I've heard this before, and am not sure what I should do. I figured that even if it isn't immediately apparent, the user would end up proceeding to click on Colleges, and then figuring it out within seconds. But brainstorming this and redoing the home page is definitely on my to-do list.
The "get paid to answer questions" looks a bit scummy and isn't generally relevant. Can you limit it by IP so it only shows up to people browsing to you from those universities? And then simplify it to something like "Answer Questions, Get Paid"? It's also a weird width.
I'm not sure how to limit by IP, but that would be cool if I were able to do that.
Most of the front page appears to be selling the site. Which you need to do if you're charging for a service, but you're not. Instead you want to get people into the flow of looking at colleges as soon as possible. Save the "what makes us better than everyone else" for an about page or a pitch deck.
Good point.
You have an audience issue with questions. You're going for a site where people see answers to real questions, the kind the would ask someone in person if they were socially close and wanted the real deal on a college, but those questions aren't the same for everyone. In particular, there are some questions which probably do matter a lot to some people but are irrelevant or even offensive to others. "How hot are the girls?" was the main one that jumped out to me here.
I know they aren't the same for everyone, and so I try to be comprehensive. But being comprehensive will inevitably lead to the presence of questions that some applicants aren't interested in. I feel that being comprehensive is more important than annoying some people with some questions.
The comments take too long to load. They're not way slow, but just clicking around some it was distracting having to wait for the spinning C each time. This limits the magic of clicking around and seeing people's responses to questions.
That's something I'll need to address. In the short term, I'm already using Disqus, and I don't think it's worth the time to go back and rewrite the code to have my own users and comments and stuff so I could make it faster, but I think that I will eventually. Meanwhile, Rails 4 just came out with turbolinks, which should speed it up a bit (I still need to upgrade).
Before we get into more details, here are some higher-level thoughts on the business overall: how will people get to your site and how will you make money from them?
One strategy is to pay for ads. People doing this already are easy to find: search in an incognito window with questions like "college information", "choose college", or "college for me" (be imaginative). Click on the ads that don't look like they're for particular colleges. This drops me on a few landing pages:
...
My motivation behind this post stems from Aumann's agreement theorem. It seems that my opinions on startups differ from most of the rationality community, so I want to share my thoughts, and hear your thoughts, so we could reach a better conclusion.
I think that if you're smart and hard working, there's a pretty good chance that you achieve financial independence within a decade of the beginning of your journey to start a startup. And that's my conservative estimate.
"Achieve financial independence" only scratches the surface of the benefits of succeeding with a startup. If you're an altruist, you'll get to help a lot of other people too. And making millions of dollars will also allow you the leverage you need to make riskier investments with much higher expected values, allowing you to grow your money quickly so you could do more good.
A lot of this is predicated on my belief that you have a good chance at succeeding if you're smart and hardworking, so let me explain why I think this.
Along the lines of reductionism, "success with a startup" is an outcome (I guess we could define success as a $5-10M exit in under 10 years). And outcomes consist of their components. My argument consists of breaking the main outcome into it's components, and then arguing that the components are all likely enough for the main outcome to be likely.
I think that the 4 components are:
The Idea
Your idea has to be for a product or service (I'll just say product to keep things simple) that creates demand, and can be met profitably. In other words, make something people want (this article spells it out pretty well).
What could go wrong?