Eliezer_Yudkowsky comments on White Lies - Less Wrong

38 Post author: ChrisHallquist 08 February 2014 01:20AM

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Comment author: SaidAchmiz 08 February 2014 04:11:39AM 21 points [-]

A few years ago, for example, when I went to see the play my girlfriend had done stage crew for, and she asked what I thought of it. She wasn't satisfied with my initial noncommittal answers, so she pressed for more. Not in a "trying to start a fight" way; I just wasn't doing a good job of being evasive. I eventually gave in and explained why I thought the acting had sucked, which did not make her happy. I think incidents like that must have contributed to our breaking up shortly thereafter. The breakup was a good thing for other reasons, but I still regret not lying to her about what I thought of the play.

Boy, I sure wouldn't want to date a person like this (your girlfriend-at-the-time). She asked for your opinion; pressed you to actually give it, thus communicating (by any reasonable measure) that she actually wanted your opinion; and then, when you gave it honestly, was unhappy about it? That's horrible.

I don't think I'd ever willingly choose to be close to someone to whom I'd ever regret not lying in response to being asked for my opinion. The thought of living like that, living with the knowledge that honest communication is basically impossible because any time the person asks me (and presses me) about my opinion, I have to consider the possibility that what they actually want is lies — that this person prefers lies both to truths and to no comment — repulses me.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 08 February 2014 11:59:49PM 20 points [-]

Demand by rational men for rational women exceeds supply, even taking into account that some of the women have harems. If you're one of the lucky men, or a woman, be aware of your privilege and don't criticize men who lack it.

Comment author: ciphergoth 09 February 2014 09:04:38AM *  21 points [-]

I think the set of women you can be honest with in a relationship is much larger than the set of women who are full on CFAR style rationalists.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 09 February 2014 05:56:39PM 4 points [-]

My experience is more like "real honesty, in or out of a relationship, only works with the upper echelon of CFAR style rationalists" though admittedly exposure to the naked, sharp gears of my own intellect may have more Lovecraftian results than it would in the population average.

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 10 February 2014 12:57:54PM *  0 points [-]

Honest about carefully selected safe topics? Or about the weird ones?

Comment author: SaidAchmiz 09 February 2014 12:05:36AM 6 points [-]

I agree with the point in your first sentence, but I'm not sure I follow what your advice is in the second sentence.

Are you suggesting that my criticism comes from having rational women to date, whereas Chris (at the time of the anecdote) did not, and so was forced to date an irrational woman, for which I was criticising him?

Those are three wrong things, it seems to me:

  1. I don't find it to be the case that rational women occur in abundance in my dating pool;

  2. No one (presumably) forced Chris to date the young lady in question;

  3. I wasn't criticising him for his dating choices; if I was criticising anything, it was his advice that we accept such behavior in our partners / friends, and expressing the view that I, personally, would not accept such behavior.

P.S.

some of the women have harems

Really?

Comment author: hairyfigment 09 February 2014 04:39:57PM 2 points [-]

That surprises you? Do you think rational women wouldn't want harems?

Scott tells us that polyamory seems like a suboptimal way to get sex, and I assume this holds true even for women - technically. But sex is not fungible.

Comment author: SaidAchmiz 09 February 2014 05:02:01PM 1 point [-]

Um... sure, that surprises me a bit. Also that they have the harems, even given wanting them.

I don't really know what you are saying in your second paragraph. Please explain?

Comment author: hairyfigment 09 February 2014 06:23:39PM -1 points [-]

...What?! You're surprised that rational people who are in demand can get what they want?

I may try to explain the second part later, but in my current condition I don't get your confusion.

Comment author: SaidAchmiz 09 February 2014 06:54:48PM 1 point [-]

...What?! You're surprised that rational people who are in demand can get what they want?

Depending on what "what they want" is, yeah, I might be surprised.

I mean, clarify for me, what are we talking about here? "Polyamory is relatively common in rational circles, and poly relationships in said circles often/sometimes/commonly consist of (i.e., are circumscribed by) one woman who is dating several men"?

Comment author: [deleted] 09 February 2014 09:39:18AM *  2 points [-]

That doesn't entitle any irrational woman to date any rational man. Men are allowed to stay single, you know.

Comment author: blacktrance 10 February 2014 04:10:25PM -2 points [-]

It's better to be single than to date someone irrational.

Comment author: Protagoras 10 February 2014 06:11:36PM 0 points [-]

If everyone thought like that, I'd never get a date (and neither would anyone else, of course).

Comment author: blacktrance 10 February 2014 06:15:06PM *  0 points [-]

Perhaps (though I'm not sure*), but even if so, that's no great loss, because getting a date isn't good in itself, it's only good if it's with someone with whom you're compatible, and rationality is critically important for that.

Also, this would have the effect of making rationality a more desirable trait, and irrationality a more costly one.

.*It's definitely not true for everyone, as there are relationships in which both partners are rational.

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