paper-machine comments on Amanda Knox Guilty Again - Less Wrong

7 Post author: christopherj 31 January 2014 04:12AM

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Comment author: AnlamK 31 January 2014 01:03:23PM 3 points [-]

Hello,

There have been informed discussions of this subject on LW before.

Particularly to parties informed on the subject: Can someone explain the court's reasoning? I can't quite follow why Knox and Sollecito were first convicted, then acquitted and yet are convicted once again.

Comment author: [deleted] 31 January 2014 03:10:45PM 1 point [-]

Vagaries of the Italian justice system combined with a heady mix of mob justice and nationalism.

Comment author: [deleted] 31 January 2014 11:15:17PM *  1 point [-]

Vagaries of the Italian justice system combined with a heady mix of mob justice

Agreed, but...

nationalism.

That's not exactly the word I'd use to explain why Italians would think an Italian and his girlfriend would be guilty of the murder of a foreigner, especially when the other suspect is also a foreigner, and from an ethnic group Italians dislike much more than that of Amanda Knox.

Comment author: [deleted] 01 February 2014 06:33:55AM 3 points [-]

Well, it's the word I'm using. Here.

When Knox was first convicted of murder, there was outcry in the U.S. that she was wrongfully convicted, based on shoddy evidence. When she was acquitted, there was nearly as much of an outcry in Italy that the courts had succumbed to American pressure.

...

There is a valid extradition agreement between Italy and the U.S., but the U.S. has not set much of a precedence in returning suspects for such matters. Italians point to a number of high-profile cases over the years in which they say American suspects have been accused of wrongdoing and criminal acts, but have been let off lightly.

Comment author: christopherj 04 February 2014 02:49:26AM *  0 points [-]

There's clearly plenty of opportunity for someone to score political points with this case.

  • Declaring Knox guilty and in need of extradition which will likely be denied, will make it easier to reject extradition requests from the US, and will have an effect on national public opinion, probably an increase in nationalism in both countries.
  • Declaring her innocent will be seen at least somewhat as bowing to US pressure and/or acknowledging that the criticism of the Italian justice system was accurate.
  • This case helps Americans remember that Italy exists.
  • Politicians sometimes like distractions, and this is a good example. They need to coordinate either the thing to be distracted from with the case, or the case with the thing to be distracted from.

There's a few more effects, but I suppose the main question is whether the Italian justice system likes to play politics.

Comment author: komponisto 01 February 2014 06:34:56AM 2 points [-]

The way that nationalism enters is that people feel that criticism of the verdict (especially coming from outsiders, as it mainly does in this case) is an attack on the nation's institutions (specifically its justice system), and thus on the nation itself.

In other words, if Knox and Sollecito were innocent, that would be a soldier for foreigners to use against Italy, and thus must be defeated at all costs (Sollecito's nationality notwithstanding).

Comment author: [deleted] 01 February 2014 08:47:52AM *  2 points [-]

Well, Italians tend to be quite un-nationalistic in that sense, but yeah, I'm under the impression that some of them would be pissed off by foreigners criticizing Italian institutions even though they would agree with the same criticism coming from a fellow Italian. (As someone-I-can't-remember-and-Google-is-failing-me said, insults hurt more when they're truthful.)

EDIT: What paper-machine said seems very relevant. Italians tend to be very pissed off when they perceive Italian institution to succumb to foreign pressure.

Comment author: bogus 02 February 2014 12:42:16AM *  0 points [-]

especially when the other suspect is also a foreigner, and from an ethnic group Italians dislike much more than that of Amanda Knox.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Italians are not likely to be openly racist, but their distrust and even dislike towards non-EU nationals (or "Extracomunitari") is fairly well-known. Anti-American sentiment is not unknown there either, due in part to the country's legacy as a sort of "soft-power" battlefield during the Cold War period.

Comment author: [deleted] 02 February 2014 10:26:50AM *  1 point [-]

While “extracomunitari” technically includes Americans, it's not commonly used as a slur against them. It's mostly used for immigrants from poorer countries, such as North Africans and (before the EU was enlarged) Eastern Europeans.

(There are plenty of anti-American people too, but these tend to be not the same people as those who use “extracomunitari” as a slur.)

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