RichardKennaway comments on Rationality Quotes February 2014 - Less Wrong

5 [deleted] 02 February 2014 01:35PM

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Comment author: [deleted] 22 February 2014 08:45:50AM 4 points [-]

What I'm saying is that to argue that our ancestors were sexual omnivores is no more a criticism of monogamy than to argue that our ancestors were dietary omnivores is a criticism of vegetarianism.

-- Christopher Ryan

Comment author: RichardKennaway 22 February 2014 08:58:36AM 6 points [-]

The paleo diet movement urges that people should eat as our distant ancestors ate, so where does that leave his analogy?

Comment author: [deleted] 22 February 2014 06:58:23PM 0 points [-]

To the conclusion that we should totally have more sex with everyone.

Somehow I don't have an objection to that.

Comment author: [deleted] 01 March 2014 03:35:14PM 0 points [-]

Well, to be pedantic Christopher Ryan just said “no more”, not “no more and no less”, though the latter was clearly implicated.

Comment author: V_V 05 March 2014 02:06:13PM -1 points [-]

The paleo diet movement urges that people should eat as our distant ancestors ate

Except that the actual diets they propose don't particularly resemble what our distant ancestors likely ate.

Comment author: Lumifer 05 March 2014 04:07:52PM *  2 points [-]

Except that the actual diets they propose don't particularly resemble what our distant ancestors likely ate.

I don't know -- the core of paleo diets is "Don't eat grains, don't eat seed oils, avoid processed foods. Eat mostly meat, fish, eggs, fruits, and vegetables (with some specifics about particular starchy and non-starchy veggies)".

Of course some paleo people go off the deep end and rail about the dangers of nightshades and how every plant from the New World is a horror to human biochemistry. But I always thought about them as the lunatic fringe.

Why do you think that doesn't resemble what our distant ancestors likely ate?

Comment author: V_V 05 March 2014 04:43:11PM 0 points [-]

Our distant ancestors couldn't go to the supermarket and buy meat, fish, eggs, fruits and vegetables.

It's actually unclear what their diet looked like, in particular what proportion of calories they derived from meat. I suppose that their diets varied greatly depending on geographical location, season, etc.
In any case, the meat of wild game animals is nutritionally different than the meat of domesticated sedentary animals, typically feed on soy and corn, and wild berries and tubers are nutritionally different than cultivated fruits and vegetables.

Comment author: Lumifer 05 March 2014 05:01:36PM 1 point [-]

It's actually unclear what their diet looked like

Then we actually don't know whether paleo diets resemble what our distant ancestors likely ate, do we?

I suppose that their diets varied greatly depending on geographical location, season, etc.

That's a pretty certain conclusion.

And yes, I agree that game meat and wild tubers are quite different from pork chops and supermarket sweet potatoes. I am not sure why this is relevant, though. Ignoring agriculture is pretty much impossible for most people and, in any case, we are mostly talking about the right direction to shift your diet in, not about exact matches.

Comment author: V_V 05 March 2014 05:21:18PM *  0 points [-]

Then we actually don't know whether paleo diets resemble what our distant ancestors likely ate, do we?

I suppose they may be similar by coincidence.

And yes, I agree that game meat and wild tubers are quite different from pork chops and supermarket sweet potatoes. I am not sure why this is relevant, though. Ignoring agriculture is pretty much impossible for most people and, in any case, we are mostly talking about the right direction to shift your diet in, not about exact matches.

The point is that the shifts suggested by the paleo dieters aren't necessarily in the direction of truly ancestral diets.
For instance, paleo dieters often suggest to reduce the intake of calories from starches and increase calories from meat, because paleolithic people supposedly ate that way. Setting aside the obvious naturalistic fallacy, it's not actually clear (and it can be quite well false) that paleolithic people normally consumed less starches and more meat than the typical Western pattern diet (or the Mediterranean diet, or other "healthy" variations of the Western pattern diet).

EDIT:

To expand they previous point, it seems that mainstream nutritionists and paleo dieters both agree that the Western pattern diet is not very healthy. Both suggest to reduce sugars, salt, alcohol, caffeine and processed foods.
The difference is that mainstream nutritionists suggest to reduce meat and dairy, while paleo dieters suggest to reduce starchy foods. Paleo dieters can't really support their non-mainstream suggestions with evidence of ancestral dietary patterns.

Comment author: Lumifer 05 March 2014 05:32:06PM *  2 points [-]

The point is that the shifts suggested by the paleo dieters aren't necessarily in the direction of truly ancestral diets.

First, as we agreed, there were many different "truly ancestral" diets. Second, it depends on the starting point. I will assert that if you start with a typical American diet, eating most any kind of paleo will shift you in the right direction. We can argue about starches and such, but it's pretty clear that no one ate large quantities of grains or seed oils 100kya, not to mention all the processed food-like substances :-/

Comment author: V_V 05 March 2014 05:59:50PM 0 points [-]

I will assert that if you start with a typical American diet, eating most any kind of paleo will shift you in the right direction.

Agreed.

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