TylerJay comments on Open Thread for February 18-24 2014 - Less Wrong

4 Post author: eggman 19 February 2014 12:57PM

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Comment author: eggman 19 February 2014 03:54:26AM *  8 points [-]

My following queries are addressed to those who have experience using nicotine as a nootropic and/or have learned much about what taking nicotine as a nootropic is like. If you yourself don't match either of these descriptions, but have gained information from those who do, also please feel free to answer my queries. However, references, or citations, backing up the information you provide would be appreciated. If you're aware of another thread, or post, where my concerns, or questions, have previously been addressed, please let me know.

Gwern, appreciated on Less Wrong for the caliber of his analysis, makes the case for experimenting with using nicotine as a nootropic on an occasional basis. For the use of nicotine as a nootropic within the community which is Less Wrong, the most recent date for which I could find data on usage rates was the 2012 Less Wrong survey results:

NICOTINE (OTHER THAN SMOKING): Never used: 916, 77.4% Rarely use: 82, 6.9% 1x/month: 32, 2.7% Every day: 14, 1.2% No answer: 139, 11.7%

I haven't used nootropics other than caffeine in the past, but when I was first reading about the promise they might hold for improving my cognition in various ways I was impressed. What was true in general of my impression of nootropics was also true for my impression of nicotine in particular. Upon reading Gwern's analysis, I was excited. However, based upon the survey results, I was surprised that there weren't more Less Wrong users using nicotine more frequently. This could be because P(Less Wrong user taking any uncommon nootropic), or P(Less Wrong user being aware of the uses of uncommon nootropics) might be lower than I would have expected, so P(Less Wrong user taking nicotine as a nootropic) would consequently be lower than I would expect as well.

I asked one of my friends from the rationality meetup I attend if he would use nicotine as a nootropic, and he told me he probably wouldn't. When I asked him the reason for this, he told me he feared the affects addiction of nicotine might have upon him.

Gwern's conclusion on trying nicotine as a nootropic is as follows:

So what’s the upshot? My reading has convinced me to at least give it a try and it has been useful (see the nicotine section of Nootropics). The negatives universally seem to be long-term negatives, and even if nicotine turns out to be something I haul out only in a crisis or every few weeks, it would still have been worth investigating.

It seems the stigma, perhaps quite justified, around any use of nicotine could be preventing more people from trying nicotine as a nootropic. The fact that the community of Less Wrong seemed less excited about trying nicotine as a nootropic than I used to be is a fact I took as a signal that I was missing something in the risk inherent in trying to take nicotine. That was almost a year ago. Since then, I haven't tried nicotine as a nootropic, or any others, except continued use of caffeine, for that matter.

I want to take another look at nicotine again. With the advent of electronic cigarettes, and their increasing ubiquity, it seems the risk of switching from nicotine patches, or gum, to tobacco products, is lessened. If one were to develop a dependency on nicotine, and then becomes addicted to the use of tobacco products for whatever reason, one could transition back to consuming only nicotine by using electronic cigarettes. So, for the user in question, the health risks associated with the habit could revert back to only those risks posed by the use of nicotine, unmixed with the other harmful ingredients of tobacco products.

Nevertheless, the use of only nicotine itself can pose health risks, which are outlined in the linked review written by Gwern.

So:

  • if you have considered using nicotine as nootropic, but ultimately didn't pursue its use, what was the reason(s) why you didn't?

  • if you have used nicotine as a nootropic, if you believe you did experience them, what were the dependency affects like? What impact did they have on your life?

  • if you have previously used nicotine as a nootropic, but have ceased doing so, what were your reasons for doing so?

  • if both you and someone else you know have used nicotine as a nootropic, and the quality of your respective experiences differed substantially, how? Why do you believe this was/is the case?

  • for those in the know, are there any questions on this topic I'm not asking, but I should be asking?

Note: edited for formatting.

Comment author: TylerJay 20 February 2014 05:28:36PM 4 points [-]

I use an e-cigarette sometimes while working. I do not smoke. I feel like it does give a small lift at first, though re-dosing effects seem less pronounced than the first of the day. If I puff on it for too long, I feel like it actually gives a slight depressant effect. Overall, its pleasant and tastes good. I think most of the benefit comes from the fact that you're just a little bit "high" while working which makes it more enjoyable. They are definitely addicting.

Comment author: eggman 20 February 2014 08:34:12PM 1 point [-]

Thanks for replying, TylerJay. Did you notice they became addictive immediately, or after a graduated period of use? If the latter, what was the frequency, or quantity, of your daily consumption of e-cigarettes? Is there anyway you believe one might be able to avoid addiction to e-cigarettes?

Comment author: TylerJay 20 February 2014 08:56:13PM *  3 points [-]

Did you notice they became addictive immediately, or after a graduated period of use?

Over time. It's really subtle. You first notice it if you go away for a few days and don't bring it and you're like "Damn, I wish I brought my ecig." I've had it for a year and I routinely go a week without using it and I don't have any withdrawals. I just catch myself thinking about it sometimes.

Is there anyway you believe one might be able to avoid addiction to e-cigarettes?

Yeah, don't smoke em.

But in all seriousness (and since abstinence is boring and usually ineffective), your best bet is to get the low nicotine versions and only use it a little bit. If you feel like you took a puff or two and didn't get additionally stimulated, then stop smoking it and wait until the next day or wait a few hours. Take 1-2 week long breaks every once in a while as a status check and take note of the quiet little voice in your head. How many times does it bring up the ecig? If you find yourself needing more to feel the same buzz (or you just start going through them a lot faster), that's a sign to stop and take a nice long break. This is pretty generic good advice for any addictive substances and I've used it effectively with many.

Comment author: [deleted] 09 October 2014 01:14:58AM 2 points [-]

I would recommend gum or lozenge instead of ecigarrete... the immediate effect of the ecigarette would seem to make addiction much more likely.