Lumifer comments on Open Thread for February 18-24 2014 - Less Wrong

4 Post author: eggman 19 February 2014 12:57PM

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Comment author: Ritalin 22 February 2014 05:01:59PM *  1 point [-]

the causes of violent crime are biological in nature and then suggest biological interventions

For a moment there, I feared you'd speak of genetics and eugenics, but then

(someone on LessWrong recently suggested fish pill oils to correct for micronutrient deficiencies)

if you mean something as prosai as dietetics, I can totally get behind that; I find it easy to believe that crappy food induces cranky mood (and that, in the US, crappy cheap food is remarkably deleterious).

If you could acknowledge that culture problems and social multipliers have huge effects on adult criminality and success, and make policy decisions based on that (although this problem is very difficult) how many more lives could be saved?

Is this not acknowledged? Nay, is this not common knowledge?

If the political climate only allows you to say that different outcomes are the result of the discriminatory schooling system, those nasty racists and the prejudiced authorities

Putting the full blame on them is as absurd as fully absolving them. What insane political climate do you live in, that you'd have to settle for either fallacy?

if it describes the way the world is then its just science

I remain unconvinced that this is exactly the case, and, even though I can accept its provisional validity, with many caveats and reservations, I'm pretty sure the actual reality is more interesting than "blacks and latinos are born dumber, White-Jews and White-Asian nerds are born smarter, and White-Christians are born a little bit smarter than average".

Assuming this particular piece of knowledge matters, what are we supposed to do about it? Be more forgiving of teachers' inability to enable black students to reach some average standard? Allocate Jewish and Asian kids less resources and demand that they meet higher standards? Should we treat kids differently, segregating them by race or by IQ? What practical use do we even have for scientific racism?

Comment author: Lumifer 23 February 2014 12:22:30AM 3 points [-]

White-Asian

That's an interesting moniker.

So, you think that the humanity is divided into Whites and Blacks, it's just that there are White-Caucasians, White-Asians, etc...?

Comment author: Ritalin 23 February 2014 01:26:15AM *  0 points [-]

Hardly. I myself change colour all the time, depending on how much sun I get. But it would appear that the races "scientific racism" as I understand it classifies as smarter, are all of paler disposition overall; "whites" in the traditional sense, european jews, and east asians. Calling them all White-X is a way of drawing attention to this strange fact. Is there something about sunlight deprivation that sharpens the mind?

Comment author: Lumifer 23 February 2014 03:45:28AM 4 points [-]

East Asians (and specifically Han Chinese) were never called White.

Is there something about sunlight deprivation that sharpens the mind?

No, but I suspect that the necessity to survive the winter led to increased evolutionary pressures.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 23 February 2014 04:14:15AM 4 points [-]

Perhaps, on the other hand the places where civilizations first developed, i.e., Egypt, the Fertile Crescent, the Indus Valley, Central America, don't have harsh winters; I'm not sure about the Yellow River, but my brief Googling suggested their winters aren't that harsh either.

Comment author: Lumifer 23 February 2014 04:45:39AM 10 points [-]

The best geography/climate to develop a civilization is not necessarily the best geography/climate to produce high intelligence. Early civilizations arose in places where agriculture was productive enough to generate significant surplus.

Comment author: Ritalin 23 February 2014 10:40:25AM 1 point [-]

I would hardly consider places like the valley of the Congo or Australia or the Sahara to be evolutionarily soft.

Comment author: Lumifer 23 February 2014 04:37:04PM 7 points [-]

I would hardly consider places like the valley of the Congo or Australia or the Sahara to be evolutionarily soft.

Evolution can push development into different directions. Winters promote long-term thinking and planning. The Congo basin probably promotes resistance to parasites and infections....

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 23 February 2014 03:52:51AM 3 points [-]

I'm not sure about that. I don't have statistics, anecdotally dark skinned Indians appear to be comparable to East Asians.

Comment author: Ritalin 23 February 2014 10:56:53AM -1 points [-]

Indians have very varied skin tones, ranging from the very very dark all the way to the very very pale.