RobinZ comments on Self-Congratulatory Rationalism - Less Wrong

51 Post author: ChrisHallquist 01 March 2014 08:52AM

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Comment author: Lumifer 23 April 2014 07:14:43PM 3 points [-]

the cost of false positives is high relative to the cost of reducing false positives

I don't see it as self-evident. Or, more precisely, in some situations it is, and in other situations it is not.

The behavior proposed by the principle of charity is intended to result in your being able to reliably distinguish between failures of communication and failures of reasoning.

You are saying (a bit later in your post) that the principle of charity implies two things. The second one is a pure politeness rule and it doesn't seem to me that the fashion of withdrawing from a conversation will help me "reliably distinguish" anything.

As to the first point, you are basically saying I should ignore evidence (or, rather, shift the evidence into the prior and refuse to estimate the posterior). That doesn't help me reliably distinguish anything either.

In fact, I don't see why there should be a particular exception here ("a procedural rule") to the bog-standard practice of updating on evidence. If my updating process is incorrect, I should fix it and not paper it over with special rules for seemingly-stupid people. If it is reasonably OK, I should just go ahead and update. That will not necessarily result in either a "closed question" or a "large posterior" -- it all depends on the particulars.

Comment author: RobinZ 24 April 2014 03:00:27PM 2 points [-]

A small addendum, that I realized I omitted from my prior arguments in favor of the principle of charity:

Because I make a habit of asking for clarification when I don't understand, offering clarification when not understood, and preferring "I don't agree with your assertion" to "you are being stupid", people are happier to talk to me. Among the costs of always responding to what people say instead of your best understanding of what they mean - especially if you are quick to dismiss people when their statements are flawed - is that talking to you becomes costly: I have to word my statements precisely to ensure that I have not said something I do not mean, meant something I did not say, or made claims you will demand support for without support. If, on the other hand, I am confident that you will gladly allow me to correct my errors of presentation, I can simply speak, and fix anything I say wrong as it comes up.

Which, in turn, means that I can learn from a lot of people who would not want to speak to me otherwise.

Comment author: Lumifer 24 April 2014 03:37:21PM 1 point [-]

responding to what people say instead of your best understanding of what they mean

Again: I completely agree that you should make your best effort to understand what other people actually mean. I do not call this charity -- it sounds like SOP and "just don't be an idiot yourself" to me.