RichardKennaway comments on Self-Congratulatory Rationalism - Less Wrong

51 Post author: ChrisHallquist 01 March 2014 08:52AM

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Comment author: Sophronius 06 March 2014 08:50:03PM *  4 points [-]

Edited to add: in the original post, I intended but forgot to emphasize that I think the correlation between IQ and rationality is weak at best. Do people disagree? Does anyone want to go out on a limb and say, "They aren't the same thing, but the correlation is still very strong?"

I'll go ahead and disagree with this. Sure, there's a lot of smart people who aren't rational, but then I would say that rationality is less common than intelligence. On the other hand, all the rational people I've met are very smart. So it seems really high intelligence is a necessary but not a sufficient condition. Or as Draco Malfoy would put it: "Not all Slytherins are Dark Wizards, but all Dark Wizards are from Slytherin."

I largely agree with the rest of your post Chris (upvoted), though I'm not convinced that the self-congratulatory part is Less Wrong's biggest problem. Really, it seems to me that a lot of people on Less Wrong just don't get rationality. They go through all the motions and use all of the jargon, but don't actually pay attention to the evidence. I frequently find myself wanting to yell "stop coming up with clever arguments and pay attention to reality!" at the screen. A large part of me worries that rationality really can't be taught; that if you can't figure out the stuff on Less Wrong by yourself, there's no point in reading about it. Or, maybe there's a selection effect and people who post more comments tend to be less rational than those who lurk?

Comment author: RichardKennaway 04 July 2014 09:56:51PM 5 points [-]

A large part of me worries that rationality really can't be taught; that if you can't figure out the stuff on Less Wrong by yourself, there's no point in reading about it.

The teaching calls to what is within the pupil. To borrow a thought from Georg Christoph Lichtenberg, if an ass looks into LessWrong, it will not see a sage looking back.

I have a number of books of mathematics on my shelves. In principle, I could work out what is in them, but in practice, to do so I would have to be of the calibre of a multiple Field and Nobel medallist, and exercise that ability for multiple lifetimes. Yet I can profitably read them, understand them, and use that knowledge; but that does still require at least a certain level of ability and previous learning.

Or to put that another way, learning is in P, figuring out by yourself is in NP.

Comment author: Sophronius 04 July 2014 10:35:19PM *  3 points [-]

Agreed. I'm currently under the impression that most people cannot become rationalists even with training, but training those who do have the potential increases the chance that they will succeed. Still I think rationality cannot be taught like you might teach a university degree: A large part of it is inspiration, curiosity, hard work and wanting to become stronger. And it has to click. Just sitting in the classroom and listening to the lecturer is not enough.

Actually now that I think about it, just sitting in the classroom and listening to the lecturer for my economics degree wasn't nearly enough to gain a proper understanding either, yet that's all that most people did (aside from a cursory reading of the books of course). So maybe the problem is not limited to rationality but more about becoming really proficient at something in general.