Lethalmud comments on How to Convince Me That 2 + 2 = 3 - Less Wrong

52 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 27 September 2007 11:00PM

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Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 28 September 2007 12:38:57AM 29 points [-]

At any rate, if the former is true, 2+2=4 is outside the province of empirical science, and applying empirical reasoning to evaluate its 'truth' is wrong.

When I imagine putting two apples next to two apples, I can predict what will actually happen when I put two earplugs next to two earplugs, and indeed, my mind can store the result in a generalized fashion which makes predictions in many specific instances. If you do not call this useful abstract belief "2 + 2 = 4", I should like to know what you call it. If the belief is outside the province of empirical science, I would like to know why it makes such good predictions.

To apply the same reasoning the other way, if you aren't a Christian, what would be a situation which would convince you of the truth of Christianity?

You'd have to fix all the problems in belief, one by one, by reversing the evidence that originally convinced me of the beliefs' negations. If the Sun stopped in the sky for a day, and then Earth's rotation restarted without apparent damage, that would convince me there was one heck of a powerful entity in the neighborhood. It wouldn't show the entity was God, which would be much more complicated, but it's an example of how one small piece of my model could be flipped from the negation of Christianity (in that facet) to the non-negation.

Getting all the pieces of the factual model (including the parts I was previously convinced were logically self-contradictory) to align with Christianity's factual model, would still leave all the ethical problems. So the actual end result would be to convince me that the universe was in the hands of a monstrously insane and vicious God. But then there does not need to be any observable situation which convinces me that it is morally acceptable to murder the first-born children of Egyptians - morality does not come from environmental entanglement.

Comment author: Lethalmud 11 June 2013 01:42:18PM *  0 points [-]

Elezier, do you believe that someday humans could create an AI and put that AI in a simulated enviroment that accurately simulated all the observations humanity made until now?

If you do, what further observations would that AI have to make to arrive at the belief that they were created by an intelligent entity?

Comment author: khafra 12 June 2013 05:42:16PM 3 points [-]

If we assume that humanity has gained access to effectively infinite computing power, and has put AIXItl or something similar into a copy of the universe, simulated at whatever level unifies quantum mechanics and gravitation into a coherent, leakproof framework, AIXItl would have an extremely small belief that it was inside a simulation. Only if the simplest unification of quantum mechanics and gravity turns out to be "we're in a simulation," would a hyperintelligent AI in a perfect simulation of our universe come to the belief that it's in a simulation.

So, the epistemically perfect AI would come to an incorrect decision. This does not imply a flaw in its method for forming beliefs; it merely implies the tautology that there is no way to find out what there is no way to find out.