Ilverin comments on LINK: In favor of niceness, community, and civilisation - Less Wrong

26 Post author: Solvent 24 February 2014 04:13AM

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Comment author: Ilverin 24 February 2014 05:25:53PM *  -2 points [-]

"How dire [do] the real world consequences have to be before it's worthwhile debating dishonestly"?

M̶y̶ ̶b̶r̶i̶e̶f̶ ̶a̶n̶s̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶:̶

One lower bound is:

If the amount that rationality affects humanity and the universe is decreasing over the long term. (Note that if humanity is destroyed, the amount that rationality affects the universe probably decreases).

T̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶s̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶q̶u̶e̶s̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶"̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶i̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶y̶"̶?̶

R̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶f̶,̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶e̶r̶m̶,̶ ̶r̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶r̶e̶a̶s̶i̶n̶g̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶f̶f̶e̶c̶t̶s̶ ̶h̶u̶m̶a̶n̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶u̶n̶i̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶.̶

Comment author: Mestroyer 25 February 2014 07:07:39PM 4 points [-]

Downvoted for the fake utility function.

"I wont let the world be destroyed because then rationality can't influence the future" is an attempt to avoid weighing your love of rationality against anything else.

Think about it. Is it really that rationality isn't in control any more that bugs you, not everyone dying, or the astronomical number of worthwhile lives that will never be lived?

If humanity dies to a paperclip maximizer, which goes on to spread copies of itself through the universe to oversee paperclip production, each of those copies being rational beyond what any human can achieve, is that okay with you?

Comment author: Ilverin 26 February 2014 04:54:49PM 2 points [-]

Thank you, I initially wrote my function with the idea of making it one (of many) "lower bound"(s) of how bad things could possibly get before debating dishonestly becomes necessary. Later, I mistakenly thought that "this works fine as a general theory, not just a lower bound".

Thank you for helping me think more clearly.