"How dire [do] the real world consequences have to be before it's worthwhile debating dishonestly"?
M̶y̶ ̶b̶r̶i̶e̶f̶ ̶a̶n̶s̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶:̶
One lower bound is:
If the amount that rationality affects humanity and the universe is decreasing over the long term. (Note that if humanity is destroyed, the amount that rationality affects the universe probably decreases).
T̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶s̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶q̶u̶e̶s̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶"̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶i̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶y̶"̶?̶
R̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶f̶,̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶e̶r̶m̶,̶ ̶r̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶r̶e̶a̶s̶i̶n̶g̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶f̶f̶e̶c̶t̶s̶ ̶h̶u̶m̶a̶n̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶u̶n̶i̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶.̶
Downvoted for the fake utility function.
"I wont let the world be destroyed because then rationality can't influence the future" is an attempt to avoid weighing your love of rationality against anything else.
Think about it. Is it really that rationality isn't in control any more that bugs you, not everyone dying, or the astronomical number of worthwhile lives that will never be lived?
If humanity dies to a paperclip maximizer, which goes on to spread copies of itself through the universe to oversee paperclip production, each of those copies being rational beyond what any human can achieve, is that okay with you?
Scott, known on LessWrong as Yvain, recently wrote a post complaining about an inaccurate rape statistic.
Arthur Chu, who is notable for winning money on Jeopardy recently, argued against Scott's stance that we should be honest in arguments in a comment thread on Jeff Kaufman's Facebook profile, which can be read here.
Scott just responded here, with a number of points relevant to the topic of rationalist communities.
I am interested in what LW thinks of this.
Obviously, at some point being polite in our arguments is silly. I'd be interested in people's opinions of how dire the real world consequences have to be before it's worthwhile debating dishonestly.