DaFranker comments on Open Thread: March 4 - 10 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: Coscott 04 March 2014 03:55AM

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Comment author: DaFranker 04 March 2014 03:24:28PM *  4 points [-]

Quantum Mechanics as Classical Physics, by Charles Sebens. It's described as yet another new QM interpretation, firmly many-worlds and no collapse, with no gooey "the wave function is real" and some sort of effort, if I read correctly, to put back the wave-function in its place as a description rather than a mysterious fundamental essence. Not in quite those exact words, but that does seem to be the author's attitude IMO.

Sounds interesting and very much in line with LW-style reductionist thinking, and agrees a bit too much with my own worldviews and preconceptions. Which is why I'm very much craving a harsh batch of criticism and analysis on this from someone who can actually read and understand the thing, unlike me. If anyone knows where I could find such, or would be kind enough to the world at large to produce one, that'd be appreciated.

Comment author: shminux 04 March 2014 05:12:08PM *  1 point [-]

My ad hominem argument of the day: the author is in the philosophy department... figures...

Comment author: DaFranker 14 March 2014 01:03:07PM *  1 point [-]

I've retracted my (epistemically unhealthy) previous responses about great physics discoveries. I'd say "oops" as per the LW tradition, but when I look back on what I wrote all I see is a rather shameful display of cognitive dissonance. There's no mere "oops" there, but plain old full-blown contrarian, academic-hipster biases. Sorry.

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 11 March 2014 03:17:24PM *  1 point [-]

Peter Spirtes is in a philosophy department too.


"It's too bad all the people who know how to do philosophy are too busy driving taxicabs or cutting hair."

Comment author: shminux 11 March 2014 06:02:36PM -1 points [-]

The version I heard was about professional sports players and coaches.

Comment author: DaFranker 04 March 2014 08:59:34PM -2 points [-]

On the other hand, my confidence that the ultimately correct and most useful Next Great Discovery (e.g. any method to control gravity) will not come from a physics department is above 50%.

Philosophy simply happens to be one of the more likely departments where it might come from, though still quite a ways behind "unaffiliated" and "engineering".

Comment author: The_Duck 05 March 2014 01:24:35AM 3 points [-]

my confidence that the ultimately correct and most useful Next Great Discovery (e.g. any method to control gravity) will not come from a physics department is above 50%.

If you care to expand on this, I'm curious to hear your reasoning.

Comment author: shminux 04 March 2014 09:27:40PM 2 points [-]

Maybe not from a Physics department, but from a research lab of IBM or similar. Do you have any examples from the reference class of Great Discoveries in Physics? If so, what fraction of them did not come from trained physicists?

Comment author: NoSuchPlace 04 March 2014 10:05:31PM -1 points [-]

The obvious example example of a (/several) great discovery(s) in physics by someone outside of a physics department is Einstein.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 05 March 2014 12:52:08AM 5 points [-]

Grad students count as people in physics departments.

Comment author: NoSuchPlace 05 March 2014 01:20:25AM 1 point [-]

From my reading of Wikipedia:

Einstein was working at the patent office in 1905 while also working on his phd. He published his first annus mirabilis paper in March, was awarded his phd is April and published the remaining papers in May, June and September. He didn't take a position as a lecturer until 1908. This means Einstein was outside of physics while publishing his papers on Brownian motion, Special Relativity and Mass-Energy equivalence. Or did I miss something?

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 05 March 2014 03:04:48AM *  6 points [-]

My understanding is that this was a normal career path at the time and the fact that he was not paid by the university after getting his degree is no more evidence of him being outside the physics department than his not being paid by the university before completing it.


Added: But it is relevant that this isn't normal today.

Comment author: DaFranker 04 March 2014 03:25:09PM 0 points [-]

Meanwhile, I'd also pounce on the "Ontological Alternatives" chapter there to ask a slightly unrelated question: Regarding the "fourth option" there, has anyone ever tried to analyze a world ontology where, unlike here, particles can belong to multiple different worlds according to some kind of rule or per-particle basis? e.g. Instead of having a particle belong to World # 872 as an elementary property, which lets it only interact with other W-872 particles, it would have a set of "keys" where any other particle that also has at least one of those keys can be interacted with, while that other particle might have a slightly different keyset and thus be able to interact with a third particle "located" right next to the first one (insofar as position of two non-interacting particles is relevant to the second one in question)?

I realize I'm throwing ideas around while having no idea at all what I'm talking about, but at the same time from where I'm sitting it feels like all the "sides" of the QM interpretation debates always share a humongous bag of uncontested assumptions. Namely, assumptions about pesky details like "position" being a necessary, elemental and fundamental property of particles.

Comment author: Squark 04 March 2014 08:22:04PM *  4 points [-]

I haven't read Sebens' article and my a priori estimate of its value is very low. Maybe I'll take a look at it later.

Regarding what you write about particles. Particles are not fundamental entities in modern physics: quantum fields are (or quantum string fields, whatever the latter are). A state of matter can only be described as a collection of particles in certain limits and approximations. The position of a particle is especially ill defined because of Compton wavelength non-locality in quantum relativity.

Also thinking of QM worlds as "keys" is not a good idea. The wavefunction can only be decomposed into "worlds" as a macroscopic approximation, there are no "worlds" on the fundamental level.

Comment author: polymathwannabe 04 March 2014 04:10:00PM 0 points [-]

It strikes me as a potentially fruitful SF novel idea.