When it comes to the option of pursuing a life goal, everything gets really fuzzy.
Very understandable. It makes sense that things that are more clear have a bigger influence on your motivation than things that are less clear.
I think it's that fuzziness that's keeping me from seriously considering giving up my fun-filled life to do something more ambitious.
I think it's a really good sign that you a) know this and b) acknowledge it. Given that it's such an important topic, it seems worth putting proportional thought into it though. And it seems like you are trying to do that. Check out Ugh fields if you haven't already. It's been one of the most practical articles I've found here.
and think my life is cool
Count me among them! In some not so far away alternate universe, I'm doing the same things you are. Which is why your situation is interesting to me.
I think it's a pretty hard question that most people don't seem to actually take seriously. For the record, my impression is that most people here aren't really too ambitious. Two big reasons seem to be a) "it's too difficult/unlikely that I succeed" and b) akrasia. Perhaps you'd like to investigate this further and more formally. If you do, please let me know what you find. If you don't, I probably will, but it'd be at the end of my current to-do list.
But anyway, you seem to be trying to take the question pretty seriously, and seem to be a pretty self-aware and reasonable person. I shall try to say something useful.
Question: What are your terminal goals. The ends that you seek. Obviously an incredibly difficult question. It may be possible to proceed without a perfect answer to it though if you have a rough idea of what your preference ratios are.
Question: How strong an impulse do you feel to do something ambitious? How manageable is this impulse? How do you expect this impulse to change over time? Personally, I have an incredibly strong impulse to do some ambitious things, and I've taken it into account that I expect that this impulse would remain strong and would make my life unpleasant if I ignored it.
Question: How happy would you be if you weren't to pursue an ambitious life? Seems like you have done a pretty good job so far. It seems that you'll continue to be pretty happy, although you seem to be in your early 20s and I'm not sure how much you could extrapolate from your current experiences.
Question: How big a positive impact would you have on the world if you pursued a non-ambitious path?
Question: What is the probability that you succeed in your ambitious endeavors? My thoughts about this are unconventional. I think that a truly smart and dedicated person would have very very good chances of success. I see a lot of big problems as puzzles that can be solved.
Very very rough calculations on startup success:
Say that I get 10 tries to start a startup in the next 20 years (I know that some take longer than 2 years to fail, but 2 years is the average, and it often takes shorter than 2 years to fail). At a 50% chance of success, that's a >99.9% chance that at least one of them succeeds (1-.5^10). I know 50% might seem high, but I think that my rationality skills, domain knowledge (eventually) and experience (eventually) give me an edge. Even at a 10% chance of success, I have about a 65% (1-.9^10) chance at succeeding in one of those 10 tries, and I think that 10% chance of success is very conservative. (from here)
Some thoughts on where I see opportunity if I had the resources.
Question: How altruistic are you really? How much do you really care about the billions of people who you never have and probably never will meet? What about the bajillions of people who haven't been born yet? To what extent are you willing to make sacrifices for these people? (I know this is implicitly addressed in some other bullet points, but I thought it'd be worth mentioning explicitly) EDIT: See here for thoughts on EV and ambitiousness.
Question: What are the selfish reasons to be ambitious? How happy would you be if you succeeded in your ambitions? (note Ambition can Be Poison and it's easy to never be satisfied, so I don't think it'd be as happy as one would think) Could you possibly contribute/build a better world for yourself?
Some thoughts of mine. I don't think I'm nearly as well read as most people here, am lacking information and thus am of limited confidence, but I plan on reading up in due time. Anyway, it seems to be that we live in a truly special time. Kurzweil's LOAR makes sense to me (the gist of it anyway). Compared to previous generations, we have an unprecedented opportunity to do big things. AI, cryonics, anti-aging, the internet, joint-consumption economies, etc. I really do think there's a reasonable chance that you could contribute/build a better world for yourself.
I know that ambition can be poison. I know there's a reasonable chance I do some "slipping down the slope", but long term I think I'll be able to get over this (to a reasonable extent). Nevertheless, I take it into account in my calculations. However, I think that it'd feel really really really good to have had some big positive impact on the world. It seems like something that really would boost that happiness setpoint up a bit.
Finally, the money/fame/power that result from successfully achieving any ambitions definitely have their value, although I think it's nothing compared to the personal satisfaction.
Confessions: I think the clarity of these thoughts are about 40% more clear than the previous best analysis I had done. I personally don't think I've thought nearly hard enough about these things given there importance, although part of the reason is intentional - I have a tendency to overthink things which is stressful and I've sort of reached a point of diminishing returns... idk. And I unfortunately do fear that this analysis suffers a bit from confirmation bias (ie. biased in favor of ambition). So please take all of this into account.
So personally, with a title like "Morality Doesn't Exist" would you be willing to describe your views as moral relativism?
I'm not particularly well read in philosophy. Probably way moreso than the average person, but below average for someone here. I don't know what moral relativism is, but I'll look it up...
It seems to be saying that goals are arbitrary, and if so, then yes - I do think my views could be described that way. Thanks for introducing me to the official viewpoint. You seem to know a bit about it - do you know anything about it that seems inconsistent with what I appear to believe?
After brief reading, it seems that I may not agree with what seems to be the less strict interpretations of moral relativism. It seems that people use it as an excuse to say "don't judge others for what they believe". It seems to me that a lot of viewpoints really do have a terminal goal of something along the lines of utilitarian, but these other viewpoints try to invent rules of thumb that promote this end, but they don't admit that the end is actually what they're after.
The title of the website, Less Wrong, almost implies an objective morality
I wouldn't say so. The way I think of it is "less bad at achieving your ends". If you read HPMOR I would say "Quirrel is (at times) quite rational, even if his goals are sometimes selfish".
it seems like many LWers shy away from the term relativism. Although I don't like it either, I still don't totally understand why they do, assuming they're rational enough to have a reason other than discomfort with the idea.
My impression is that the community does have some "soft spots", and not wanting to believe in moral relativism sort of seems like it's one of them (based on what I remember when I read through the metaethics stuff. Not wanting to seem naive appears to be another "soft spot" of the community to me.
And I think that "anti-religion" is a bias here too. I had gotten slammed for asking about the possibility of an afterlife here. Regardless of whether I was right or wrong, I don't think I was uncivil or anything and I think it's a topic worth discussion, at the very least (from their perspective) to help me better understand it. But I sense that it hit a soft spot, hence the downvoting and mild incivility. And I've seen similar things happen elsewhere here also. I figure you should know this given your background. For the record, I'd probably call myself a confused agnostic. I definitely don't believe in the teachings of religion or god in the traditional sense, but I don't pretend to understand the true workings of consciousness or the universe and I remain open to possibilities that atheist wouldn't. And on some level, I think Louis CK makes a good point (plus it's funny).
Anyway, my point here is that humans are quite flawed. I love LW but people here are far from perfect. And so am I. And even EY is far from perfect (although I think he's astonishingly smart).
Depending on how far up the slippery slope of ambition you want to climb, I just heard my old boss in Guatemala is looking for a new SAT teacher for the next year, starting this summer, if you happen to be interested. But beware, the slope is slippery in both directions!
No thanks (see above). But I appreciate the thought :)
Actively look out for the flinch, preferably when you are in a motivationally "high" state. Better still, do this when you are both motivationally high, not under time pressure, and when you are undertaking an overview of your life.
Thanks for the link. You're right about this being an "ugh field" for me, something I usually flinch from even thinking about. I think my doubts about Christianity used to be an "ugh field" too, but I feel a lot better for having confronted them.
...Two big reasons seem to be a) "it's too dif
This was originally a comment to VipulNaik's recent indagations about the academic lifestyle versus the job lifestyle. Instead of calling it lifestyle he called them career options, but I'm taking a different emphasis here on purpose.
Due to information hazards risks, I recommend that Effective Altruists who are still wavering back and forth do not read this. Spoiler EA alert.
I'd just like to provide a cultural difference information that I have consistently noted between Americans and Brazilians which seems relevant here.
To have a job and work in the US is taken as a *de facto* biological need. It is as abnormal for an American, in my experience, to consider not working, as it is to consider not breathing, or not eating. It just doesn't cross people's minds.
If anyone has insight above and beyond "Protestant ethics and the spirit of capitalism" let me know about it, I've been waiting for the "why?" for years.
So yeah, let me remind people that you can spend years and years not working. that not getting a job isn't going to kill you or make you less healthy, that ultravagabonding is possible and feasible and many do it for over six months a year, that I have a friend who lives as the boyfriend of his sponsor's wife in a triad and somehow never worked a day in his life (the husband of the triad pays it all, both men are straight). That I've hosted an Argentinian who left graduate economics for two years to randomly travel the world, ended up in Rome and passed by here in his way back, through couchsurfing. That Puneet Sahani has been well over two years travelling the world with no money and an Indian passport now. I've also hosted a lovely estonian gentleman who works on computers 4 months a year in London to earn pounds, and spends eight months a year getting to know countries while learning their culture etc... Brazil was his third country.
Oh, and never forget the Uruguay couple I just met at a dance festival who have been travelling as hippies around and around South America for 5 years now, and showed no sign of owning more than 500 dollars worth of stuff.
Also in case you'd like to live in a paradise valley taking Santo Daime (a religious ritual with DMT) about twice a week, you can do it with a salary of aproximatelly 500 dollars per month in Vale do Gamarra, where I just spent carnival, that is what the guy who drove us back did. Given Brazilian or Turkish returns on investment, that would cost you 50 000 bucks in case you refused to work within the land itself for the 500.
Oh, I forgot to mention that though it certainly makes you unable to do expensive stuff, thus removing the paradox of choice and part of your existential angst from you (uhuu less choices!), there is nearly no detraction in status from not having a job. In fact, during these years in which I was either being an EA and directing an NGO, or studying on my own, or doing a Masters (which, let's agree is not very time consuming) my status has increased steadily, and many opportunities would have been lost if I had a job that wouldn't let me move freely. Things like being invited as Visiting Scholar to Singularity Institute, like giving a TED talk, like directing IERFH, and like spending a month working at FHI with Bostrom, Sandberg, and the classic Lesswrong poster Stuart Armstrong.
So when thinking about what to do with you future my dear fellow Americans, please, at least consider not getting a job. At least admit what everyone knows from the bottom of their hearts, that jobs are abundant for high IQ people (specially you my programmer lurker readers.... I know you are there...and you native English speakers, I can see you there, unnecessarily worrying about your earning potential).
A job is truly an instrumental goal, and your terminal goals certainly do have chains of causation leading to them that do not contain a job for 330 days a year. Unless you are a workaholic who experiences flow in virtue of pursuing instrumental goals. Then please, work all day long, donate as much as you can, and may your life be awesome!