johnlawrenceaspden comments on Rationality Quotes May 2014 - Less Wrong

4 Post author: elharo 01 May 2014 09:45AM

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Comment author: johnlawrenceaspden 03 May 2014 12:55:14PM 3 points [-]

{ the ability to navigate ambiguity }

I think this is one of the most important skills you get from the humanities. I have a friend who's a history professor. He's very used to hearing 20 different accounts of the same event told by different people, most of whom are self-serving if not outright lying, and working out what must actually have gone on, which looks like a strength to me.

He has a skill I'd like to have, but don't, and he got it from studying history, (and playing academic politics).

Comment author: SaidAchmiz 03 May 2014 06:05:56PM 10 points [-]

working out what must actually have gone on

How did he know that his judgment of what actually had gone on was correct? How did he verify his conclusion?

Comment author: Lumifer 03 May 2014 05:48:01PM 9 points [-]

{ the ability to navigate ambiguity } I think this is one of the most important skills you get from the humanities.

Statistics is precisely that, but with numbers.

Comment author: VAuroch 05 May 2014 08:27:25PM 1 point [-]

That only works if you have numbers.

Comment author: Lumifer 06 May 2014 04:05:45PM 4 points [-]

Luckily, you can make numbers.

Comment author: VAuroch 06 May 2014 08:22:41PM -1 points [-]

"Making numbers" is unlikely to produce useful numbers.

Comment author: [deleted] 09 May 2014 08:13:55AM 7 points [-]

Not necessarily.

Relevant Slate Star Codex post: “If It’s Worth Doing, It’s Worth Doing With Made-Up Statistics

Comment author: Lumifer 06 May 2014 08:40:52PM *  3 points [-]

"Making" is not "making up".

When you flip a coin a bunch of times and decide that it's fair, you've made numbers. There are no numbers in the coin itself, but you reasonably can state the probability of the coin coming up heads and even state your certainty in this estimate. These are numbers you made.

As a more general observation, in the Bayesian approach the prior represents information available to you before data arrives. The prior rarely starts as a number, but you must make it a number before you can proceed further.

Comment author: VAuroch 07 May 2014 04:15:00AM -1 points [-]

There are no numbers in the coin itself, but you reasonably can state the probability of the coin coming up heads and even state your certainty in this estimate. These are numbers you made.

No, those are numbers you found. The inherent tendency to produce numbers when tested in that way ("fairness/unfairness") was already a property of the coin; you found what numbers it produced, and used that information to derive useful information.

Making numbers, on the other hand, is almost always making numbers up. Sometimes processes where you make numbers up have useful side-effects

Of course, the point of a subjective Bayesian calculation wasn't that, after you made up a bunch of numbers, multiplying them out would give you an exactly right answer. The real point was that the process of making up numbers would force you to tally all the relevant facts and weigh all the relative probabilities.

but that doesn't mean that making numbers is at all useful.

Basically, I think it's important to distinguish between finding numbers which encode information about the world, and making numbers from information you already have. Making numbers may be a necessary prerequisite for other useful processes, but it is not in itself useful, since it requires you to already have the information.

Comment author: Lumifer 07 May 2014 06:08:21AM -1 points [-]

No, those are numbers you found.

I don't think this is a useful distinction, but if you insist...

You said: "That only works if you have numbers." Then the answer is: "Luckily, you can find numbers."

Comment author: VAuroch 07 May 2014 04:11:55PM -1 points [-]

Finding relevant numbers is significantly difficult in most circumstances.

Comment author: Lumifer 07 May 2014 04:18:15PM 2 points [-]

That phrase is so general as to be pretty meaningless.

I do not subscribe to the notion that anything not expressible in math is worthless, but "in most circumstances" the inability to find any numbers is a strong indication that you don't understand the issue well.