RichardKennaway comments on Rationality Quotes June 2014 - Less Wrong

9 Post author: Tyrrell_McAllister 01 June 2014 08:32PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (279)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 03 June 2014 10:06:32AM 9 points [-]

Reality exists. It includes certain facts, such as that people die, which some people find hard to accept. These facts are part of human nature. If these facts cannot be accepted, and are opposed, the people who oppose them become enemies of humanity. They cannot accept humanity for what it is, so they hate it.

Not Michael Anissimov.

Reality exists. It includes certain facts, such as [ANY ASSERTION YOU LIKE], which some people find hard to accept. These facts are part of human nature. If these facts cannot be accepted, and are opposed, the people who oppose them become enemies of humanity. They cannot accept humanity for what it is, so they hate it.

Various people.

Anissimov may be correct in his description of Naomi Wolf and Elliot Rodger (although it seems to me that the room he admits for "cultural reasons" is large enough to contain the entire discourse of both). But the quoted soundbite is an anti-rationality template.

Comment author: Jiro 03 June 2014 09:03:18PM 2 points [-]

"That people die" is not "part of human nature" in the sense intended by that quote, which means something like "how people think and react".

Furthermore, you can't actually put any assertion you like in that template because the template only works with true assertions.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 04 June 2014 08:12:54AM 3 points [-]

"That people die" is not "part of human nature" in the sense intended by that quote, which means something like "how people think and react".

"How people think and react" was Anissimov's subject of the moment. Many things, including both that one and human mortality, have been asserted to be "part of human nature". Look up anyone arguing against life extension. It won't take long to find the argument that "mortality is part of human nature". Literally. It took me less than one minute to find this:

The US President's Council on Bioethics claims that the human life cycle has an inherent worth and that, consequently, age-extension technologies distort or pervert the ‘natural' or ‘proper' human lifespan (President's Council on Bioethics, 2003).

The original source of what is there paraphrased is here (PDF, see pp.189-190).

Furthermore, you can't actually put any assertion you like in that template because the template only works with true assertions.

It works -- that is, can be sincerely said -- for anything the writer believes. It shares this attribute with bald assertion, but surrounds the assertion with an applause light frame.

Comment author: Jiro 04 June 2014 03:29:09PM *  3 points [-]

"X is part of human nature" can mean

-- X cannot be changed

-- X should not be changed

-- X has particularly deep connections to human psychology

"How men and women are attracted is part of human nature" normally has the third meaning. "Death is part of human nature" normally has the first meaning, and so isn't comparable. In your quote, "death is part of human nature" has the second meaning; that is indeed a fallacy, but has no bearing on the original statement since that doesn't use the same meaning.

It works -- that is, can be sincerely said -- for anything the writer believes.

By your reasoning nobody should ever say anything about a true statement that is not a proof of it, since whatever they say could have a false statement substituted and would be a fallacy.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 05 June 2014 06:06:00PM 1 point [-]

"X is part of human nature" can mean

-- X cannot be changed

-- X should not be changed

-- X has particularly deep connections to human psychology

It always and only means the third of these (with minor variations, e.g. theists will talk about souls created by God). The first and second are then drawn as implications of the third.

In your quote, "death is part of human nature" has the second meaning

It has the third meaning, as you could have discovered by consulting the sources I gave. The whole purpose of the authors of that report was to address the question, if various enhancements to human bodies, of which life extension is one, can be made, should they be made?The "human nature" argument presented there was based on our mortality having "particularly deep connections to human psychology".