shminux comments on Open thread, 9-15 June 2014 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: Tenoke 09 June 2014 01:07PM

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Comment author: Slider 09 June 2014 07:03:35PM *  0 points [-]

I was going through (yet again) the quantum mechanics sequences. I got new perspective about being a mechanic of configuration spaces. I am still at a loss on what kind of mathematical entity a wave-function is and couldn't compute anything with them. I guess they are somehow an animation of complex points in 3 real dimensions?

There was a lot of talk about splitting but I kinda gathered that there must be a counterpart ot it. If you can't compute the next state of a "world" from how it looks now but have to look at the neighbours in configuration space doesn't this mean that world evolution is inherently not a "private" fact? As in your viewpoint world could look exactly the same but depending on the neighbouring worlds state things would go different. Now usually those neighbouring worlds depend on the same past configurations as your world so they can't be completely orthogonal. But on the whole the wave-function that when sampled collapses, does evolve in a very determined way. And in stationary wavefunctions while each individual wave moves outward the shape of the wave function is the same after one cycle. That is such wavefunctions don't "shatter" and they have the quality of reforming the same shape. I don't have a good detail to point to but it seems it must converge just as fast as it splits.

Woudn't the "converging worlds" be us much of a big deal as "splitting worlds"? And wouldn't it be quite possible that instead of looking like a tree or balloon on the macro level your world line would look more like a line. Not a classical one of pointlike width but one with actual width. Doesn't the preservation of measure mean that worlds don't "dissipate into ambivalence". A common take on many worlds where each decision splits your world would in my mind imply such a dissipation. So there must be some mechanic where tracking an ensemble of worlds behaves differently than tracking each world separately resulting in an ensemble smaller than if each world would split into independent trees. I guess one suspect would be to arrive at the same state throught different paths? Ie instead of 2 states branching into 4 individual states they branch into 3 states one of which has double measure.

The bomb tester experiment reads to me as if you blow up the bomb in another world to gain info on the version in your world.

There was mention of mangled worlds and that similar states only meaningfully interact when close in configuration which usually means "until shielding fails". However it didn't seem like world-view implications were worked out. If my decision can affect my other fates making the spread of my measure have "connected fate" doesn't this have very different impact to meanigfullness of decisions. I would like to believe that such effect would just affect random thermal noise. But it might be possible for there to be "quantum magnifying glasses" where insignificant details in many individual worlds contribute to have macroscopic effect in some of the future worlds. I would not like to be blindsighted by them!

Comment author: shminux 09 June 2014 08:09:36PM *  5 points [-]

Here is an MWI perspective from an actual physicist: http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2014/02/12/the-many-worlds-of-quantum-mechanics/

A very thorough explanation of QM by Sean, much better quality than the QM sequence: http://preposterousuniverse.com/eternitytohere/quantum/

Relevant video debate: http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2014/05/29/quantum-mechanics-smackdown/

Read/watch those first.

Comment author: Slider 12 June 2014 01:09:19PM 0 points [-]

I used the linked resources and didn't come off much wiser, but I guess regoing over he basics is only good. I guess it hammered home that there is convergence on the double slit experiment. However in all these things it's a scenario where you start off in one world split it into multiple and then coverge to a result world. However in my understanding pure states are hard to prepare. There are a multiple worlds where we run the experiment a little later or in a little diffferent conditions. Won't those worlds also have a chance to effect our experiment in addition to the "intra branch" interference?

There was a side mention that in multiple worlds there is a "branching structure". I guess it might be characterise long distance behaviour but in short range convergent interference can play a big role?

Comment author: raisin 10 June 2014 09:18:21AM *  0 points [-]

You seem to dislike the QM sequence on LW. Besides those links (they're quite short), is there anything else that you'd recommend to read instead of the QM sequence that would be as easy to understand for a layman and would offer significant insight on MWI position? In short, is there anything that would offer the same utility that the QM sequence offers, but in a better manner?

Comment author: shminux 10 June 2014 03:23:48PM 1 point [-]

You seem do dislike the QM sequence on LW.

Actually, there is a subsequence which is pretty good: {An Intuitive Explanation of Quantum Mechanics}(http://lesswrong.com/lw/r6/an_intuitive_explanation_of_quantum_mechanics/).

is there anything that would offer the same utility that the QM sequence offers, but in a better manner?

Well, Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity is consistently praised by practicing physicists and quantum information researchers, and it advocates MWI quite forcefully. There is a lot of speculative stuff there which is best read critically, just like in his first book, The Fabric of Reality, so it is a good exercise in recognizing when you are being fed a teacher's password.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 10 June 2014 03:04:54PM 0 points [-]

I've seen FAQs, and even linked one that looked good, but I cannot find that post with the search function, and I don't want to go back a year or so and find it manually. That said, don't expect many good ones.

1) QM is, believe it or not, difficult (big surprise, right?)

2) what needs to be said really depends on the directions your thoughts bend when being exposed to it - covering every blind alley that could screw someone up would slow everyone down to a crawl, unless you go very formally, and then see point 1 even more so.