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Lumifer comments on Pascal's Mugging: Tiny Probabilities of Vast Utilities - Less Wrong
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I am not quite sure why I would have issue. Above negligible in this case means any probability above that of a completely random unfalsifiable hypothesis with no evidence to support it.
No, and there's perfectly valid evidence to believe he wants us to not believe in him. Of course that isn't actually any evidence of a reward or an afterlife, nor would evidence that he wants us to believe in him be.
The current evidence at hand only indicates that God doesn't care about whether or not we believe in his existence, as god is omnipotent and could just give us ACTUAL evidence to convince everyone of his existence, which doesn't exist.
This isn't evidence. There's an equal probability of people writing these things in universes where there is no God and universes where there is a God. This is of course an estimation, we haven't seen what these texts look like in an universe with a god compared to religious texts in an universe without a god, nor the amount of them, so the texts we have don't actually indicate anything about the existence of god.
The absolutely only difference between a religious text and a random hypothesis with no evidence to support it is that a religious text is a random hypothesis with no evidence to support it that someone wrote down.
There isn't anything in these texts to imply divine origin. They're full of logical errors, scientific errors, and they contradict themselves internally and among each other.
And if say, the bible was actually of divine origins, as it is full of logical errors, contradictions and scientific errors it would only indicate that god doesn't want us to believe in him, which is what you're trying to prove in the first place.
<shrug> You're falling into the atheist-arguing-with-believers mode.
The original issue was whether you have discovered a new failure mode in Pascal's Wager (besides a few well-known ones). My view on that remains unchanged.
I've only made arguments I think are correct in response to points that you made. If I have offended you, that was certainly not the intent and you can point to where you think I was rude.
But this is a theological argument. If you did not want to start a theological argument, then why did you start a theological argument?
What is your point?
"The original issue"? Were still talking about the same issue. Whether or not there's evidence to suggest that a god would do these things is an integral part of Pascals wager, aka the thing we've been talking about for 5 posts, and it's the only point you've made against my argument.
And in discussion it's customary to explain why your view hasn't changed. If my logic isn't incorrect, it is obviously correct, and it would be nice of you to explain why you think it isn't, instead of just offhandedly dismissing me without explanation.
It's not about offending people, and I doubt that Lumifer is actually offended.
It's just that there are certain scripted / cached modes of debate that we try to avoid on this site, because they don't actually aid in the pursuit of rationality.
TLDR: Lumifer is trying to help you become stronger. You stand to learn an important skill if you pay careful attention.
Not once in my life have I had these debates (no, not exaggerating) and I find it a strange assumption that I have. Don't spend an immense amount of time on these sort of forums ya' see.
If this sort of debate is truly so scripted could you point me to one? Since I'd gain an equal amount of information, apparently.
I do actually want to know what the apparently so common christian reply to these arguments is, it's sort of why I asked. I'm here to get information, not to be told that the information has already been given. This fact doesn't really help me.
Find a smart Christian and talk to her.
You could also think about what is evidence and what is ideas in your mind about what God (according to your convenient definition of him) must do or cannot do. There's a big difference. You might consider meme propagation and ruminate on why certain written down "random hypotheses" become religions and take over the world, while others don't. Oh, and speculations about the probabilities of things happening in universes with gods and universes without gods are neither facts nor arguments.
I don't think Pascal's wager is part of any form of mainstream Christian theology.
I suggest this book: Religion Explained
That was an answer to "I do actually want to know what the apparently so common christian reply to these arguments is".
I am not offended at all. The meaning of the sentence was that the argument started to follow well-worn railroad tracks.
I find your arguments unconvincing. I also don't have the inclination to get into a discussion of the Indifferent God approach which, again, is trampled ground.