eli_sennesh comments on On Terminal Goals and Virtue Ethics - Less Wrong

67 Post author: Swimmer963 18 June 2014 04:00AM

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Comment author: Error 16 June 2014 04:23:36PM 7 points [-]

I want to know true things about myself. I also want to impress my friends by having the traits that they think are cool, but not at the price of faking it–my brain screams that pretending to be something other than what you are isn’t virtuous.

I'm like this. Part of what makes it difficult is figuring out whether you're "faking it" or not. One of the maybe-not-entirely-pleasant side effects of reading Less Wrong is that I've become aware of many of the ways that my brain will lie to me about what I am and the many ways it will attempt to signal false traits without asking me first. This is a problem when you really hate self-aggrandizement and aggrandizing self-deception and get stuck living in a brain made entirely of both. My "stop pretending (or believing) that you're smarter/better/more knowledgeable than you are, jackass" tripwire trips a lot more often than it used to.

(in fact it's tripping on this comment, on the grounds that I'm signaling more epistemic honesty than I think I possess; and it's tripping on this parenthetical remark, for same reason; and recursively does so more when I note it in the remark. Godel, I hate you.)

Ignorance wasn't better, but it sure was more comfortable.

In the past I’ve thought of myself as being mostly consequentialist, in terms of morality, and this is a very consequentialist way to think about being a good person. And it doesn't feel like it would work.

Assuming I understand the two correctly, I find I espouse consequentialism in theory but act more like a virtue ethicist in practice. That is, I feel I should do whatever is going to have the best outcome, but I actually do whatever appears "good" on a surface level. "Good" can be replaced by whatever more-specific virtue the situation seems to call for. Introspection suggests this is because predicting the consequences of my own actions correctly is really hard, so I cheat. Cynicism suggests it's because the monkey brain wants to signal virtue more than achieve my purported intent.

Comment author: [deleted] 16 June 2014 05:23:26PM 0 points [-]

This is a problem when you really hate self-aggrandizement and aggrandizing self-deception and get stuck living in a brain made entirely of both. My "stop pretending (or believing) that you're smarter/better/more knowledgeable than you are, jackass" tripwire trips a lot more often than it used to.

So fix it. Learn more, think more, do more, be more. Humility doesn't save worlds, and you can't really believe in your own worthlessness. Instead, believe in becoming the person whom your brain believes you to be.

Comment author: Error 16 June 2014 08:09:56PM *  2 points [-]

Clarification: I don't believe I'm worthless. But there's still frequently a disparity between the worth I catch myself trying to signal and the worth I (think I) actually have. Having worth > 0 doesn't make that less objectionable.

I do tend to give up on the "becoming" part as often as not, but I don't think I do worse than average in that regard. Average does suck, though.

Comment author: [deleted] 16 June 2014 08:34:00PM 7 points [-]

Why are you still making excuses not to be awesome?

Comment author: [deleted] 16 June 2014 08:37:40PM 1 point [-]

Pity we can't self quote in the quote thread.

Comment author: [deleted] 16 June 2014 08:51:32PM 1 point [-]

Huh? You've said something you want to quote? But this isn't the quotes thread...

Comment author: bbleeker 18 June 2014 02:48:43PM 3 points [-]

paper-machine wants to quote you, eli. "Why are you still making excuses not to be awesome?" would have made a pretty good quote, if only you hadn't written it on Less Wrong.

Comment author: [deleted] 18 June 2014 02:51:07PM 1 point [-]

Well that's nice of him.