RichardKennaway comments on Open thread, 30 June 2014- 6 July 2014 - Less Wrong
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I happened to see this paper, which may be of interest to those experimenting with Soylent. The title is "Long-term feeding on powdered food causes hyperglycemia and signs of systemic illness in mice".
They fed different batches of mice the same food, except that one was in the usual pellet form and one was powdered and needed no chewing. They also tested both short- and long-term feeding on powdered food. Their conclusion:
Yvain also found a curious link a while ago http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/10/links-for-february-2014/ :
The abstract of the paper:
When I started tooth-grinding in my sleep in grad school, I assumed it was a stress reaction. But apparently my body was merely rationally trading enamel for a critical IQ boost?!
PSA: if your jaws become chronically sore, don't hesitate before getting it checked out. I'm kidding about the IQ boost, but not about the lost enamel.
MealSquares are made of solid food... we're currently running a semi-formal beta test. Sign up for our mailing list to get notified when we launch :)
Interesting, and it's good to have alternatives.
However, I am not sure how exactly to put together this information from FAQ page:
and from the Nutrition page, where "% Daily Values Per Serving" differ from 20% -- they range from 15% to 160%.
RDA for carbs are crazy. For the ones that go above, they're all very far below upper intake ranges.
Relevant thread on the Soylent forum
The most relevant part is probably another study mqrius mentions, "The effect of the loss of molar teeth on spatial memory and acetylcholine release from the parietal cortex in aged rats", Kato et al 1997 (available through Libgen):
It's not a long paper. Skimming, the major problems I see:
they didn't show removing teeth caused lower performance, they showed removing teeth and feeding on a liquid diet caused lower performance. (On the plus side, they say they anesthesized both groups, so that removes a serious confound.)
The experimental group had its teeth removed & also was fed liquid, while the control group kept its teeth & also ate normal pellets. Hence, the decreased performance could've been caused (ignoring the issues of bias and sampling error) by either the removal of teeth, the liquid food, or some interaction thereof (perhaps liquid food aggravating tooth infection caused by the surgery?). They do say
but I haven't looked at it and in any case, given how much varies from lab to lab, this is a basic issue which needs to be verified in your own sample, and not just hope that it's a universal. Also, if Kawamura finds that liquid food on its own damages learning & memory compared to a solid diet, how are you showing anything new by looking at liquid+surgery & finding damage...?
Their data is purely a post-comparison. They say they did the surgery, and then apparently left the rats alone for 135 weeks before doing the radial arm maze test.
So there's no way to know what the decline looked like or when it happened. It's perfectly possible that the toothless rats suffered a single sudden shock to their system from the surgery and that permanently degraded their memory, or that they had ongoing chronic inflammation or infection.
Worse, the difference may have been there from the start, they never checked. Randomization with such small n can easily fail to balance groups, that's one reason for pre-tests: to verify that a difference in the groups on the post-test wasn't there from the start but can be attributed to the experimental condition.
I'm not sure this can be described as a true 'randomized experiment'. They never actually say that the selection of rats was random or how the animals were picked for their group, and there's a weird pattern in the writing where they only ever write about the toothless rats being subjected to procedures even though logically you'd say stuff like 'all the rats were tested on X'; eg:
Plus, Figure 1 reports 9/10 rats, but by Figure 2, we're down to 5/5 rats. Huh? This makes me wonder if they're reusing control rats from a previous experiment, or reusing their data, and only actually had experimental rats. (The use of "historical controls" is apparently not uncommon in animal research.)
This would massively compromise their results because rats change over time, litters of rats will correlate in traits like memory, and these effects are all large enough to produce many bogus results if you were to, say, take 10 rats from 1 litter as your control group and 9 rats from another litter as your experimental group. Just like with humans, one family of rats may have a very different average from another family. (See the very cool paper “Design, power, and interpretation of studies in the standard murine model of ALS”, Scott et al 2008, which helpfully notes on pg5 that when you have a mouse study with 10/10 mice similar to this study and the null is true, "an apparent effect [of >5% difference in survival] would be seen in 58% of studies". Which really makes you think about a small difference in # of errors in maze performance.)
Their reward may have been a bit screwy in the memory task:
If this description is literally accurate, there's a problem. They don't mention the setup differing between groups! So this "food pellet" is the reward which gives the rats motivation to solve the maze... but you've removed the teeth from half the rats and can only feed them liquid. And you're surprised the toothless rats perform worse? I'm reminded of the reward confounds in much animal intelligence research.
the authors mention excluding the other maze performance variable:
One wonders if the # of initially correct responses would have reached p<0.05. Good old researcher degrees of freedom...
So overall, I would have to say this result seems to be extremely weak.
Missing masticatory stress is also discussed here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/less-wrong-parents/EF3CE9JPQQU (actually an LW parents post)
The cited article is this:
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/49/19546.short