gwern comments on A Parable of Elites and Takeoffs - Less Wrong

23 Post author: gwern 30 June 2014 11:04PM

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Comment author: gwern 04 July 2014 02:52:48AM -1 points [-]

Do you mean "Iraq", rather than "USSR"?

No, I meant USSR. Iraq was in a special position of being both a former close US ally and still in the valuable-to-the-US geopolitical position which made it an ally in the first place, and that is why Saddam engaged in the reasoning he did. The USSR was a former close US ally, yes, but played no such valuable role and both recognized each other as their principal threat after the Nazis were defeated.

You haven't shown that Punoxysm is wrong, you've argued that Punoxysm is wrong.

I don't know how I can point out he's wrong any more clearly. Saddam had good reason to think the threats were bluffs. Stalin would not have because those reasons did not apply to the USSR. The situations are not the same.

If Hussein had allowed the inspections, that would support your position.

Yes, but we already know he didn't. So the question is his motivations; Punoxysm has asserted that if he did it for irrational reasons, then it supports his criticism, and when I pointed out that he did it for rational reasons, he then did it supported his position! So why did he not say in the first place simply, 'Saddam didn't allow inspections; this is evidence the strategy cannot work'? Obviously, because he felt the irrational qualifier was necessary right up until I produced the references. (It is a basic principal of natural language that you do not use unnecessary restrictions or qualifiers when they are not relevant.)

Comment author: ThisSpaceAvailable 07 July 2014 08:50:54PM 0 points [-]

No, I meant USSR.

So, just to be clear: you believe that in the hypothetical world in which the US threatens to attack the USSR if it does not allow inspections, the USSR would have no reason to think this serves a useful purpose, and would be therefore justified in concluding it was a bluff?

Stalin would not have because those reasons did not apply to the USSR. The situations are not the same.

You are saying that there are reasons for thinking it was a bluff that did not apply to the USSR. That's denying the antecedent.

So the question is his motivations; Punoxysm has asserted that if he did it for irrational reasons,

It's not clear to me what you're referring to.