Strange7 comments on Confused as to usefulness of 'consciousness' as a concept - Less Wrong

35 Post author: KnaveOfAllTrades 13 July 2014 11:01AM

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Comment author: Strange7 28 July 2014 04:52:07AM 2 points [-]

Adding tungsten, or any heavy element, increases the star's density, thereby marginally shortening the star's lifespan. It's only "not disruptive to the star's homeostasis" in the sense that the star lacks any sort of homeostasis with regard to it's chemical composition. You are firing armor-piercing bullets into an enormous compost heap, and calling it a composite-laminate reinforced bunker just because they don't come out the other side.

I say again, it's not about the equilibrium being hard to disturb, it's about there being a subsystem which actively corrects and/or prevents such disturbances. Yes, a star scores above a brick on this scale, as do many other inanimate objects, automated industrial processes, and extremely simple lifeforms which nonetheless fall well below any commonsensical threshold of consciousness.

Comment author: MaoShan 28 July 2014 08:55:42PM 1 point [-]

Well, now it sounds like you found a useful definition of life; at what point on this spectrum, then, would you consider something conscious? Since it's processes you are looking for, there is probably a process that, without which, you could clearly classify as un-conscious.

Comment author: Strange7 29 July 2014 12:02:50AM 3 points [-]

If I know how many grains of sand there are, their relative positions, and have a statistical profile of their individual sizes and shapes, I no longer need to know whether it counts as a "heap" or not. If I know an object's thermal mass, conductivity, and how many degrees it is above absolute zero, I don't need to know whether it's "warm" or "cold."

The term "consciousness" is a pointer to something important, but lacks precision. My understanding was that we were trying to come up with a more precise, quantifiable pointer to the same underlying important thing.

Comment author: MaoShan 29 July 2014 09:04:13PM 1 point [-]

What is it that makes consciousness, or the thing that it points to (if such a thing is not ephemeral), important? You already said that knowing the exact quantities negates the need for categorization.

Comment author: Strange7 30 July 2014 11:34:20PM 1 point [-]

What is it that makes consciousness, or the thing that it points to (if such a thing is not ephemeral), important?

I am not in a position to speculate as to why consciousness, or the underlying referent thereto, is so widely considered important; I simply observe that it is. Similarly, I wouldn't feel qualified to say why a human life has value, but for policy purposes, somebody out there needs to figure out how many million dollars of value a statistical human life is equivalent to. Might as well poke at the math of that, maybe make it a little more rigorous and generalized.

Comment author: [deleted] 29 July 2014 07:28:00AM 1 point [-]

If I know how many grains of sand there are, their relative positions, and have a statistical profile of their individual sizes and shapes, I no longer need to know whether it counts as a "heap" or not.

Unless you're trying to decide whether its article on Wikipedia belongs in Category:Heaps ;-)