FeepingCreature comments on Why I Am Not a Rationalist, or, why several of my friends warned me that this is a cult - Less Wrong

12 Post author: Algernoq 13 July 2014 05:54PM

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Comment author: David_Gerard 14 July 2014 11:39:05AM *  5 points [-]

LW has a cult-like social structure.

I agree wholeheartedly, you beautifully managed to capture my feelings of unease. By targeting socially awkward nerds (such as me, I confess) it becomes unclear whether the popularity of LW among intellectuals (e.g. university students, I am looking for a better word than 'intellectuals' but fail to find anything) is due to genuine content or due to a clever approach to a vulnerable audience.

I have been contemplating this point. One of the things that sets off red flags for people outside a group is when people in the group appear to have cut'n'pasted the leader's opinions into their heads. And that's definitely something that happens around LW.

Note that this does not require malice or even intent on the part of said leader! It's something happening in the heads of the recipients. But the leader needs to be aware of it - it's part of the cult attractor, selecting for people looking for stuff to cut'n'paste into their heads.

I know this one because the loved one is pursuing ordination in the Church of England ... and basically has this superpower: convincing people of pretty much anything. To the point where they'll walk out saying "You know, black really is white, when you really think about it ..." then assume that that is their own conclusion that they came to themselves, when it's really obvious they cut'n'pasted it in. (These are people of normal intelligence, being a bit too easily convinced by a skilled and sincere arguer ... but loved one does pretty well on the smart ones too.)

As I said to them, "The only reason you're not L. Ron Hubbard is that you don't want to be. You'd better hope that's enough."

Edit: The tell is not just cut'n'pasting the substance of the opinions, but the word-for-word phrasing.

Comment author: FeepingCreature 17 July 2014 10:38:15PM *  2 points [-]

I have been contemplating this point. One of the things that sets off red flags for people outside a group is when people in the group appear to have cut'n'pasted the leader's opinions into their heads. And that's definitely something that happens around LW.

I don't know. On the one hand side, that's how you would expect it to look if the leader is right. On the other hand, "cult leader is right" is also how I would expect it to feel if cult leader was merely persuasive. On the third hand side, I don't feel like I absorbed lots of novel things from cult leader, but mostly concretified notions and better terms for ideas I'd held already, and I remember many Sequences posts having a critical comment at the top.

A further good sign is that the Sequences are mostly retellings of existing literature. It doesn't really match the "crazy ideas held for ingroup status" profile of cultishness.

Comment author: David_Gerard 07 September 2014 10:38:35AM 1 point [-]

The cut'n'paste not merely of the opinions, but of the phrasing is the tell that this is undigested. Possibly this could be explained by complete correctness with literary brilliance, but we're talking about one-draft daily blog posts here.

Comment author: FeepingCreature 07 September 2014 10:42:43AM *  -1 points [-]

I feel like charitably, another explanation would just be that it's simply a better phrasing than people come up with on their own.

but we're talking about one-draft daily blog posts here.

So? Fast doesn't imply bad. Quite the opposite, fast-work-with-short-feedback-cycle is one of the best ways to get really good.