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MrHen comments on No One Knows What Science Doesn't Know - Less Wrong

38 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 25 October 2007 11:47PM

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Comment author: MrHen 09 February 2010 11:21:06PM 0 points [-]

I've learned their is nothing you can teach a presuppositionalist in terms of a reductionist, materialist worldview.

You can teach it to them, but you will never convince them. There is actually a lot of room to work with a presuppositionalist's worldview. The conversations get tedious, though. If you know how to do it, you can find holes in their theories, but its more of an individual thing.

The easiest way into a Christian's head is to start comparing how they act with how they believe. It is hard to do this without making it personal, but with practice and a heaping dose of respect for how much it hurts to hear the charges you can do it.

Also, it may be possible to discuss materialism as a counter-theory without trigging the massive defense system people generally carry around with them. If they turtle up, just walk away or use them as practice for defending your own beliefs.

Comment author: sullyj3 27 September 2014 03:30:43AM *  3 points [-]

The easiest way into a Christian's head is to start comparing how they act with how they believe. It is hard to do this without making it personal, but with practice and a heaping dose of respect for how much it hurts to hear the charges you can do it.

I strongly disagree. The fact that people aren't perfect is a major component of Christian ideology. Christians are aware that they're hypocrites, and they try to do better. That doesn't invalidate their worldview. There are plenty of better arguments which do that on their own.

Comment author: cwillu 24 March 2017 02:53:35PM 0 points [-]

I think this might have been intended more in the purple dragon sense than anything: focus on how they know exactly what experimental results they'll need to explain, and what that implies about their gut-level beliefs.

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 27 September 2014 06:00:09AM *  2 points [-]

The easiest way into a Christian's head is to start comparing how they act with how they believe. It is hard to do this without making it personal, but with practice and a heaping dose of respect for how much it hurts to hear the charges you can do it.

I've tried this when arguing with utilitarians. As far as I know, it hasn't persuaded anyone.

Also, it may be possible to discuss materialism as a counter-theory without trigging the massive defense system people generally carry around with them. If they turtle up, just walk away or use them as practice for defending your own beliefs.

Instead of "defending" your beliefs, you may want to try exposing those parts which seem weakest, so as to increase the probability that any errors in your web of belief will be be brought to your attention by your interlocutor.

Comment author: Jiro 28 September 2014 07:53:11AM 1 point [-]

Exposing your weaknesses increases the probability that your errors will be revealed as errors, but it also increases the probability that your correct beliefs will be falsely "revealed as errors". (In an area of weakness, your opponent could present flawed arguments whose flaws you would miss, leading you to believe them.)