Viliam_Bur comments on Ethics in a Feedback Loop: A Parable - Less Wrong

9 Post author: PeerGynt 25 July 2014 04:25PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (136)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: [deleted] 27 July 2014 08:33:30AM *  2 points [-]

Patriarchy has given 90% of men and 100% of women a raw deal. Look at Dr. Robert Sapolski's work with baboon troops for an excellent model of this.

Are you talking about foragers or farmers? “Patriarchy” usually refers to the latter, but your description sounds more like the former (especially given that you're mentioning baboons).

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 27 July 2014 03:27:57PM 6 points [-]

Foragers were probably equivalent to baboons, and farming made it much worse.

In a forager tribe, when the abuse became too horrible, there was an option to leave. Farming allowed this abuse to grow astronomically. A forager alpha male couldn't make his tribe build him a pyramid.

Comment author: [deleted] 27 July 2014 07:22:17PM *  5 points [-]

Foragers were probably equivalent to baboons, and farming made it much worse.

Certain people claim that traditional farmer sexual norms (lifelong monogamous marriage where only the husband worked for money) were better than the forager ways that we're reverting to, and it's not totally obvious they're wrong. (IMO neither is a Pareto improvement over the other, so which one is better depends on what you mean by “better”, and in any event farmers weren't the same everywhere. And in many places the top 0.1% of farmers behaved like foragers anyway.)

Comment author: ialdabaoth 27 July 2014 11:55:19PM 1 point [-]

Foragers were probably equivalent to baboons, and farming made it much worse.

This fits my observations and intuitions, as well.

Forager tribes are egalitarian in comparison with farmers. In an absolute sense they're still pretty terrible places for omegas to live.

Comment author: [deleted] 28 July 2014 11:35:12AM 2 points [-]

By “absolute” you seem to mean ‘relative to the should-universe’.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 28 July 2014 01:12:40PM 6 points [-]

When using phrases like 'terrible places for omegas to live', the should-universe is the only basis of comparison unless I want to just throw up my hands, give up my something to protect, and become a moral nihilist. I wouldn't recommend it; I've tried it and it's not very fun.