Wes_W comments on Rationality Quotes August 2014 - Less Wrong

8 Post author: RolfAndreassen 04 August 2014 03:12AM

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Comment author: Jiro 11 August 2014 07:27:53PM 1 point [-]

If the country of rationalists is attacked by a country of barbarians who are perfectly optimized for conquest, the rationalists will get conquered.

But there's no way to get from here to there except by Omega coming down and constructing exactly the race of barbarians necessary for the hypothetical to work. And if you're going to say that, there's no point in referring to them as barbarians and describing their actions in terms like "believes in an afterlife" and "obeys orders" that bring to mind real-life human cultures; you may as well say that Omega is just manipulating each individual barbarian like a player micromanaging a video game and causing him to act in exactly the way necessary for the conquest to work best.

Except of course that if you say "rationalists could be conquered by a set of drones micromanaged by Omega", without pretending that you're discussing a real-world situation, most people (assuming they know what you're talking about) would reply "so what?"

Comment author: Wes_W 11 August 2014 07:57:09PM 4 points [-]

If the country of rationalists is attacked by a country of barbarians who are perfectly optimized for conquest, the rationalists will get conquered.

This is not inconsistent with the claim that, if the country of rationalists is attacked by a country of barbarians who are imperfectly optimized for conquest, the rationalists might get conquered, with the risk depending on how optimized the barbarians are. And, for that matter, the rationalist nation probably isn't theoretically optimal either...

On balance, believing true things is an advantage, but there are other kinds of advantages which don't automatically favor the rationalist side. Sheer numbers, for example.

Comment author: Jiro 11 August 2014 08:06:24PM 1 point [-]

This is not inconsistent with the claim that, if the country of rationalists is attacked by a country of barbarians who are imperfectly optimized for conquest, the rationalists might get conquered, with the risk depending on how optimized the barbarians are.

How imperfectly optimized, though? Imperfectly optimized like Omega controlling each barbarian but occasionally rolling the barbarian's morale check, which fails on a 1 on a D100? Or imperfectly optimized like real life barbarians?

Comment author: V_V 11 August 2014 08:44:40PM 2 points [-]

What about the Bolsheviks? Or the WW2-era Japanese?