army1987 comments on The Octopus, the Dolphin and Us: a Great Filter tale - Less Wrong

48 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 03 September 2014 09:37PM

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Comment author: shminux 29 August 2014 04:45:54PM 4 points [-]

For what it's worth, my personal judgement is that the filter lies before the creation of a central nervous system.

Why? Having dabbled a bit in evolutionary simulations, I find that, once you have unicellular organisms, the emergence of cooperation between them is only a matter of time, and from there multicellulars form and cell specialization based on division of labor begins. Once you have a dedicated organism-wide communication subsystem, why would it be unlikely for a centralized command structure to evolve?

My personal guess would be that the great filter isn't a filter at all, but a great scatterer, where different types of optimizers do not recognize each other as such, because their goals and appearances are so widely different, and they are sparse in the vast space of possibilities.

Comment author: [deleted] 30 August 2014 02:43:11PM 7 points [-]

Why? Having dabbled a bit in evolutionary simulations, I find that, once you have unicellular organisms, the emergence of cooperation between them is only a matter of time, and from there multicellulars form and cell specialization based on division of labor begins. Once you have a dedicated organism-wide communication subsystem, why would it be unlikely for a centralized command structure to evolve?

On Earth multicellularity arose independently several dozen times but AFAIK only animals have anything like a central nervous system.

Comment author: PeterisP 04 September 2014 09:46:39PM 2 points [-]

If animal-complexity CNS is your criteria, then humans + octopuses would be a counterexample, as urbilaterals wouldn't be expected to have such a system, and the octopus intelligence has formed separately.

Comment author: Nornagest 04 September 2014 10:38:11PM 5 points [-]

The last common ancestor of humans and octopuses probably didn't have a very complicated nervous system, but it probably did have a nervous system: most likely a simple lateral cord with ganglia, like some modern wormlike animals. That seems to meet the criteria for shminux's "dedicated organism-wide communication subsystem".