John_Maxwell_IV comments on The Octopus, the Dolphin and Us: a Great Filter tale - Less Wrong

48 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 03 September 2014 09:37PM

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Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 04 September 2014 09:07:56AM 1 point [-]

Bonobos are one of Earth's most intelligent species, and seem much kinder than humans. The existence of altruistically motivated human inventors like Stanford R. Ovshinsky and Douglas Engelbart suggests that being bonobo-level kind would not prevent technological development.

This seems like evidence against certain kinds of late Great Filters.

Another point: I imagine if we had evolved from bonobos, we would be doing effective altruism on a much larger and better scale than we are now, for instance. So based on the existence of bonobos, one could argue that if the only filter is ahead of us, more and better effective altruism usually doesn't help subvert it.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 05 September 2014 01:42:19PM 5 points [-]

Given that ants developed agriculture despite having tiny brains, I would imagine that it might be easier for eursocial animals to develop a technological civilisation, which provides more evidence against these filters.

Comment author: Lumifer 04 September 2014 02:54:50PM 3 points [-]

Bonobos are one of Earth's most intelligent species, and seem much kinder than humans.

Do they now? Looking at the Wikipedia page you linked to...

De Waal has warned of the danger of romanticizing bonobos: "All animals are competitive by nature and cooperative only under specific circumstances" and that "when first writing about their behaviour, I spoke of 'sex for peace' precisely because bonobos had plenty of conflicts. There would obviously be no need for peacemaking if they lived in perfect harmony." ... bonobos kill monkeys for food. For the biologist, this fact is irrelevant in any discussion of aggression and peacefulness, because it is predation (due to hunger, not aggression) practiced against a different species. Hohmann and Surbeck published in 2008 that bonobos sometimes do hunt monkey species. Five incidents were observed in a group of bonobos in Salonga National Park, which seemed to reflect deliberate cooperative hunting. On three occasions, the hunt was successful, and infant monkeys were captured and eaten.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 04 September 2014 11:04:32PM 2 points [-]

I'm not claiming that they're some paragon of peace and cooperation, just that they seem substantially more peaceful and cooperative than humans do. E.g.

"There has never been a recorded case in captivity or in the wild of a bonobo killing another bonobo," notes anthropologist Brian Hare.

http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/science_nation/bonobos.jsp

Comment author: Azathoth123 13 September 2014 06:50:01PM 4 points [-]

How many bonobos are there in captivity? How many non-bonobo chimps have killed other chimps?