Lalartu comments on The Octopus, the Dolphin and Us: a Great Filter tale - Less Wrong

48 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 03 September 2014 09:37PM

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Comment author: mwengler 08 September 2014 11:11:07PM *  2 points [-]

With at least three intelligent-ish species on earth, while there is only one technological species, intelligence would not seem to be a great filter.

The things that allow us to be technological seems to me to be at least these four things occurring in parallel: 1) intelligence, 2) complex language, 3) dexterity, 4) an "instinct" to trade. Ridley suggested in Rational Optimist that other apes lack the instinct to trade even when we teach them language. I have no idea how this hypothesis fares in the wider world.

The great filter could conceivably be something like the chances of these 4 things occurring together are very low, in a p^4 kind of way. It appears there is only one species on earth that got there (or if the Neanderthals or other homo got there, it is a cluster of very closely related species, plus we don't know where neanderthal got to in all four of these characteristics.)

But we definitely beat the metaphorical pants off dolphins and octopi in communication, dexterity, and prevalence of trading behavior.

Comment author: Lalartu 09 September 2014 09:12:15AM 6 points [-]

Ridley suggested in Rational Optimist that other apes lack the instinct to trade even when we teach them language

He is just plain wrong

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3933343/Orangutans-learn-to-trade-favours-at-a-price.html

http://www.eva.mpg.de/psycho/pdf/Publications_2009_PDF/Pele_Call_2009.pdf

Comment author: mwengler 12 September 2014 06:17:22PM 2 points [-]

|He is just plain wrong

That might be overstating it. In both the articles you cite, some Apes are able to do some exchanges when the situation is set up for them by experimenters. Neither article reports exchanges occurring outside of highly artificial laboratory situations set up by humans, and the 2nd article states right in its abstract that

Spontaneous exchange of goods between them [great apes] has not yet been reported.