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Azathoth123 comments on What are your contrarian views? - Less Wrong
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It's not the centrifugal force that's the problem. It's the force you are using to get the ring to start rotating.
Both forces are of the same magnitude! That's why we are waiting 10000000 years to get to a substantial speed.
If one is so afraid that forces even of that magnitude will somehow destroy the thing, one must dismiss all other experiments as well.
Ehrenfest was right, back in 1908. AFAIK he remained unconvinced by Einstein and others. It's a real paradox. Maybe I like it that much, because I came to the same conclusion long ago, without even knowing for Ehrenfest.
The question of the OP was about contrarian views. I gave 10 (even though I have about 100 of them). The 10th was about Relativity and I don't really expect someone would convert here. But it's possible.
Yes, and over 10000000 the forces can build up. Consider army's example of the stretching rope. Suppose I applied force to one end of a rope sufficient that over the course of 10000000 years it would double in length. You agree that the rope will either break or the bonds in the rope will prevent the rope from stretching?
The same thing happens with the rotation. As you rotate the object faster the bonds between the atoms are stretched by space dilation. This produces a restoring force which opposes the rotation. Either forces accelerating the rotation are sufficient to overcome this, which causes the bonds to break, or they aren't in which case the object's rotation speed will stop increasing.
(or stretch)
In the case of the ring there's another possibility.
Irrelevant. How many tiny forces are inside a street car? They don't just "build up".
Nonsense.
No one's saying that forces "just build up" by virtue of applying for a long time. Azathoth123 is saying that in this particular case, when these particular forces act for a long time they produce a gradually accumulating change (the rotation of the ring) and that as that change increases, so do its consequences.
I understand. But imagine, that only 1 m of rope is accelerated this way. No "forces buildup" will happen.
As will not happen if we have rope around the galaxy.
Your rope is moving faster and faster, whether or not it goes all the way around the galaxy. The relations between different bits of the rope are pretty much exactly the setup for Bell's spaceship paradox.
And? The Relativity isn't coherent, that's the whole point.
Transition from one, to another paradox doesn't save the day.
Yeah, but it's a "paradox" only in the sense of being confusing and counterintuitive, not in the sense of having any actual inconsistency in it. The point is that this is a situation that's already been analysed, and your analysis of it is wrong.
It wouldn't be a problem, if it was just "paradox", but unfortunately it's real.
We can't and therefore don't measure the postulated Lorentz contraction. We have measured the relativistic time and mass dilatation or increase, we did. But there is NO experiment confirming the contraction of length.