buybuydandavis comments on Questions on Theism - Less Wrong

23 Post author: Aiyen 08 October 2014 09:02PM

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Comment author: DanielLC 09 October 2014 12:01:56AM 3 points [-]

Define "miracle". It's not well-understood what causes the leaders in lightning. Could this be considered a miracle in support of the existence of Thor?

Comment author: hydkyll 09 October 2014 12:58:20AM *  2 points [-]

Hm, substitute 'miracle' with 'supernatural phenomenon', then.

("supernatural" still in this sense: A "supernatural" explanation appeals to ontologically basic mental things, mental entities that cannot be reduced to nonmental entities.)

So the question of whether lightning is a supernatural phenomenon or not is now about an empirical fact, not about my own ignorance. If the lightning is due to electrically charged regions in clouds, it's natural. If it's due to Thor's rage and only a god can produce it, it's supernatural.

And of course even if we think that lightning is a supernatural phenomenon it could still be Zeus and not Thor ;)

Comment author: buybuydandavis 09 October 2014 08:15:05PM *  3 points [-]

A "supernatural" explanation appeals to ontologically basic mental things, mental entities that cannot be reduced to nonmental entities.

I think there are supposed to be non mental "supernatural" artifacts as well. Like Thor's hammer.

I find "miracles" and "supernatural" basically placeholders for "we don't follow the rules". It's basically magic. Harry and I still think there would be rules, just new ones.

In the context of the OP, I think miracles are "magic from an entity". He wills it, it is done. The miraculous part isn't the ontologically basic mental thing, but the lack of understanding of how the ontologically mental thing can produce physical effects.