Lumifer comments on 2014 Less Wrong Census/Survey - Less Wrong

88 Post author: Yvain 26 October 2014 06:05PM

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Comment author: Lumifer 29 October 2014 04:28:24PM 2 points [-]

There's no option for libertarian communism/socialism.

That looks like an oxymoron to me.

Comment author: TobyBartels 30 October 2014 05:39:38AM -1 points [-]

It looks that way to you because you either don't know what libertarianism is or don't know what communism and socialism are (or both).

Of course, that's too snarky. But people (particularly in the USA, less so in Europe) often don't understand the breadth of these positions. In the 19th century (defining people by the words they used to describe themselves), most libertarians were socialists, and many socialists were libertarians. While the main branches of both movements have grown apart, there are still people who identify as both.

Anyway, you should look it up.

Comment author: Lumifer 30 October 2014 02:33:14PM 3 points [-]

Of course, that's too snarky.

Too snarky is OK. The problem is that it's wrong :-P

In the 19th century (defining people by the words they used to describe themselves), most libertarians were socialists

In the XIX century libertarians didn't exist. Do you mean the anarcho-socialist cluster -- Kropotkin, Bakunin, anarcho-syndicalists and such? Yes, they tried to meld individual freedom with collectivism and were popular for a while. But I would argue that their basic approach was incoherent and they pretty clearly have failed. While both contemporary communistm/socialism and libertarianism might point to them as historical predecessors, I doubt either would be willing to embrace them fully.

Comment author: TobyBartels 03 November 2014 06:57:05AM 2 points [-]

I'm talking about the people who called themselves libertarians in the 19th century. The libertarian socialists of today are their intellectual descendents. They exist, and they invented the word ‘libertarian’ (in a political context), and there is no use pretending that they aren't real or that it makes no sense to apply that word to them.

Comment author: Lumifer 03 November 2014 05:26:56PM 0 points [-]

OK, I take back my original comment. While I still don't think "libertarian communism/socialism" is a coherent framework or a meaningful expression nowadays, clearly some people prefer that name for their own political philosophy and that's fine. I guess "anarchists" has the wrong connotations ;-)