On the subject of supplements, has it struck anyone else how weird an alliance health stores are?
I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but the largest health retail chain in the UK is called Holland and Barrett. It caters to the alternative therapy and woo crowd. It caters to biohackers and allergy-sufferers and body-builders and hypochondriacs. It sells vegan cheese alongside giant cartons of whey protein.
These people are not natural allies. The one thing that unites them is their unconventional desire to either put a specific substance into their bodies, or keep a specific substance out of their bodies.
I've been amused by the GNC (America) practice of having supplements appealing to different markets in separate alcoves-- there were (at least) body builder, new age, bargain, science (sciency?),.... I didn't check to see how many of their supplements were the same things in different packages in various alcoves.
They had one additional clever bit-- the supplements had a life-sized silhouette of the capsule printed on the package so you could see whether they were a size you wanted to swallow.
When I hear about the exploits of other LessWrongers, I wonder if Less Wrong itself isn't also a very weird alliance we've simply gotten used to.
I've been toying with writing a post on unlikely alliances and tolerance of deviant behaviour, but I figure if I wait long enough, Scott will write exactly the same post on Slate Star Codex, only much better than I could.
I used Cronometer for about 6 months until I found a few variations of my weekly food intake that got me to average out to 100% of the daily micronutrients I wanted each day. It comes with the RDAs as preset thresholds, but you can modify your targets as needed. (I used Yvain's Word doc and some of the other submissions to the minerals contest to set better targets).
I eventually got it to the point where the only supplements I was taking were:
Methylfolate (currently 5mg/day - due to MTHFR 677TT genes), which seems to improve my mood.
Vitamin D3 (5000 IU/day) - blood tests show that results in levels considered healthy.
Glutathione, Oxaloacetate, Aniracetam, and Calcium d-glucarate, mostly due to Dave Asprey's writings.
I just started the probiotic from General Biotics.
I occasionally take Kratom as a stimulant, rarely more than 1/4 teaspoon per day.
I take vitamin D (4000 iu) and B12 (2000 mcg) in the morning, and melatonin (900 mcg) and magnesium citrate (400 mg) at night. They seemed to be the things that helped the most with my health and mood.
I've tried a really long list of things because of health issues, and stopped most of them because taking too many things is hard for me and they didn't seem to make a significant difference.
I've been taking 1mg of Melatonin most nights for the past couple of years to help regulate sleep. I started on 4mg, which worked, but discussion on LW suggested this was an unnecessarily high dose. I have noticed what may be a dose-response relationship, (4mg hits me harder than 1mg, but 1mg is sufficient) but can't rigorously substantiate this relationship.
I've recently (last couple of weeks) started 200mg of potassium supplements (potassium gluconate) on a daily basis. The bottle suggests taking them with food, so I do. My diet is probably not very pota...
Shorty before bed:
After morning coffee:
Discontinued due to lack of noticeable effect:
D3+k2, CoQ10, Magnesium citrate, Iodine, probiotics.
D3+k2 because the usual reasons, CoQ10 for the blood pressure effects. Magnesium citrate because it helps me sleep and avoid bruxis. Iodine because of the metamed paper results, probiotics to see if they help with skin condition.
Creatine before intense physical activity.
Calcium for broken bones...
(No relation, I promise :P)
Every Day: Melatonin, Vitamin D, Magnesium, Bacopa.
Every 4 days (rotation): Caffeine, Nicotine, Ritalin, Nothing
I should probably be more thorough about Quantifying this stuff. I don't take Vitamin D or Magnesium because I measured a deficiency, they're just the two most common deficiencies in the developed world and it seems like I may have some of the symptoms of deficiency
I take fish oil (generic) capsules most days, for the usual reasons they're recommended. Zinc tablets when I'm feeling run down.
Perhaps not what you mean by supplements (in which case, apologies!), but If we're including nootropics, I take various things to try to extend my productive working day. I take modafinil twice a week (100mg in mornings), and try to limit my caffeine on those days. I take phenylpiracetam about twice a week too (100mg in afternoons on different days to modafinil), and nicotine lozenges (1mg) intermittently through the week (also no...
The only one thing that really helps is modafinil daily. 200 mg about 3 hours after I wake up.
I also take alpha lipoic acid as I think it "might" make me feel better but I am really not sure.
Vitamin D, 5000IU daily, year-round. (My latitude is about 38.85 oN, but I think I'd be taking it even further South).
Perhaps once ever 2-3 days I'll also take B6/B12/Folate.
I don't take a multivitamin because I don't want excess Vitamin E.
ETA: Forgot to mention that I add crushed flaxseed to my yoghurt.
I eat curcuma as a spice (thus:low doses) regularly. As was discussed here this may have health benefits and I plan to increase the dosage.
I bought a potassium chloride shaker as discussed here but dodn't use it regularly yet.
I eat licorice sweets quite often. While this is not strictly a supplement I recently learned that it causes Reduction of Serum Testosterone in Men. I plan to measure my testosterone levels which I believe to be low and consider stop eating licorice for one month.
I take caffeine pills (200mg) whenever I have migraine because I disco...
A few other things have been causing me look at supplements, and this thread is making me seriously consider developing a regimen. I'm not sure where the best place to start is. On an intuitive level, there are a few supplements that seem like they would be common sense for me:
I take iron (I'm pretty careless about what dose I grab) to control anemia, and vitamin D (gelcaps because Dr. My Uncle told me they're better, 5000 IU/day because a blood test showed me D-insufficient on a lower dose). You're supposed to take iron with food but I don't get the stomach upset problem if I just take it before bed and it's easier to remember that way. I don't care about brands qua brands, although I'm probably influenced by packaging when there are several options within my parameters.
For a while I took magnesium to see if that would help reduce fasciculations. It didn't help so I stopped when I ran out. I think that's the only one.
I take 10 000 units of Vit D each day. Partly because I'm a pasty nerd who never goes out and partly because large doses are anecdotally helpful for mood.
I take around 1.5mg of melatonin each night. Would have preferred 1 or less but it's too difficult to find them in smaller quantities so I make do with halving 3mg tablets. When I take them I find it significantly easier to get to sleep.
One multivitamin, usually a generic Men's Health tablet.
I take them because my family's diet is mostly grains, meat, and dairy and does not reach all of the necessary nutrients. I continue taking them so long as my personal accounts of nutrient intake show a deficiency in what they provide.
I do not. I take generics because I have found no evidence against them or in favor of brands.
One multivitamin in the morning whenever I remember to, mostly as a kind of safety net so that I don't need to worry about my diet too much in order to avoid deficiencies.
Vitamin D3, aniracetam, creatine monohydrate, fish oil, modafinil (as needed), and caffeine (as needed). And melatonin 30 minutes before bed.
ETA: I used to take green tea capsules but I noticed they absolutely killed my appetite.
B12, Zinc, Fish oil, D 5000mcg, Phytocort (for asthma), Tribulus, DHEA (cream application).
I usually eat before them to help with absorption and not to get sick because they can sometimes rile my stomach.
I take this attitude towards supplementation. You have to do what works best for your body and you have to do what works best and gets results. It takes time to experiment and see what kind of result you get. I found the daily multivitamin was useless so I ditched it and changed up my diet a little.
I've recently been looking into nootropics and other brain supplements. I've come up with this "stack".
1 = one pill at standard dosage
2 fish oil caps / 1 tablespoon of flaxseed oil 1 Uridine 1 Phosphatidylserine 1 B-complex 1 Alpha-GPC : choline source (optional) 1 Acetyl L-Carnitine : choline source and antioxidant 1 Alpha Lipoic Acid : antioxidant
NGF + BDNF increasers: 1 lion's mane 1 ashwaganda 1 bacopa 1 curcumin 95% (tumeric) 5% piperine (black pepper)
I use a joint iron/B12 supplement every couple days (I'm vegetarian). I started taking it a few years ago because I was very pale and low in energy, and it's helped a fair bit on those counts.
I took melatonin for most of a year, until one month ago I forgot my supply at home, when I came back to uni at the end of summer. My sleep has been disrupted a lot, but this coincided with a flare-up of Crohn's disease which was mainly responsible, so it's hard to assess how much worse my sleep is without the melatonin, although I definitely plan to resume taking it.
I take generic equivalents of the vitamin drink Berocca, plus iron and vitamin D to fill in the gaps and because deficiencies of those are common in people with Crohn's. I also take cod liver ...
I regularly take melatonin to help sleep. I'll occasionally take magnesium or multivitamins if I'm feeling deficient but that's kind of a subjective thing.
On the topic I would be interested in how many people who take a multivitamin take one with Chromium and Manganese as Louie Helm recently argued against that.
I think a poll might be more useful than people just posting their lists: [pollid:791]
Comment with others and I'll add them.
EDIT damn, doesnt let you do multiple options - Just choose the one you think is most effective?
I would recommend Melatonin over Valerian root. The reason you don't sleep during the daytime is hormonal. Hormones are entrained by light/dark cycles, meal patterns, and exercise. Melatonin is the hormone your body produces to make you tired and to go to sleep. When you're exposed to high-energy visible light (blue is the primary culprit, followed by green) your body does not produce melatonin. When that light goes away, your body starts producing it again.
However, just blacking out your room is not usually enough to make you sleep during the day because of the natural entrainment of sleep patterns; Your body produces melatonin not just when it's dark, but when it is used to going to sleep. Melatonin supplements basically let you circumvent that whole problem because you don't have to wait for your body to produce the melatonin. Once your'e asleep, your body's natural systems take over, continuing to produce melatonin, regulating your sleep-stages, and basically allowing you to sleep normally.
Valerian root is a GABA-ergic compound (specifically, a GABA-a receptor agonist, like benzodiazepines, ambien, and alcohol) which means it does not function on your melatonin pathways, it's a sedative. Alcohol and Benzos are well-known to disrupt your sleep cycles and to favor deep sleep over REM sleep which makes it less restful and can lead to dependence. You can also end up with a glutamate-rebound effect that wakes you up when your body overcorrects after the valerian wears off. Basically, you should think of Valerian as a GABA-ergic sedative/hypnotic drug like Benzos (xanax, ativan, valium, etc.) or alcohol, not as a supplement. Just because it doesn't require a prescription does not mean it is not a drug.
If you can't tell, I'm not a fan of Valerian. I'm personally pretty sensitive to excitatory rebound effects, but I definitely got them from Valerian. I would definitely recommend staying away from that stuff.
Regarding your other points:
First of all, as a vegan, you're at risk for a lot of deficiencies. Why are you a vegan in the first place? If it's just for health reasons, I would highly recommend switching to ovo-lacto vegetarian and/or including fish. Both groups have demonstrated significantly higher longevity than vegans in epidemiological studies. Either way though, you might want to look into Cronometer. It tracks the vitamins and micronutrients in your food. If you track everything you eat for a week but try not to let it influence your food choices, then at the end of the week, you can pull a report and see where you averaged out in both micro and macronutrients. That can be a good way of identifying deficiency risks. You can then address those either through dietary interventions or supplements, the former being preferable of course.
Let me know if I can help clarify anything or if you have any questions. Cheers
Thanks for such an in-depth reply.
I'm a vegan for ethical reasons. I'm not rigid about it, (the bean burgers I mention contain small amounts of eggs, for example) but I definitely watch which animal products I consume. If there weren't healthy ways to get something critical, I would probably make an exception. I tend to believe that there is a vegan substitute for just about anything, however I'm open to be proven wrong.
I just set up a Chronometer account, that seems like a good service. Is there a way to put exact recipes in? I put in my breakfast this mo...
Since it turns out that it isn't feasible to include check as many as apply questions in the big survey, I'm asking about supplements here. I've got a bunch of questions, and I don't mind at all if you just answer some of them.
What supplements do you take? At what dosages? Are there other considerations, like with/without food or time of day?
Are there supplements you've stopped using?
How did you decide to take the supplements you're using? How do you decide whether to continue taking them?
Do you have preferred suppliers? How did you choose them?