James_Miller comments on Non-standard politics - Less Wrong

3 Post author: NancyLebovitz 24 October 2014 03:27PM

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Comment author: James_Miller 24 October 2014 04:26:45PM 8 points [-]

I'm a pro-U.S. military libertarian. I have the standard free market libertarian beliefs but think that the world is a vastly better place because of U.S. military power which has done much to reduce the harm that governments cause. Basically, I find it historically exceptional that the United States doesn't use its military dominance to rule or extract tribute from rich but relatively weak nations such as Canada, Japan, and much of Western Europe. I attribute the post-WWII peace in Western Europe and South America mostly to the fact that the U.S. would slap down an attempt by one country to invade another.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 24 October 2014 05:54:13PM 5 points [-]

The modern world is different from the past in many ways, such as NATO, the UN, nukes, vast international trade, rapid communications, power moving away from the church and aristocracy, and horror at the vast death toll of the world wars. I couldn't imagine Canada invading the US if the Canadians suddenly developed an unstoppable superweapon, and even if the US became completely isolationist I doubt Germany would invade France again any time soon. The west has too much trade, too much communication, too much tourism to want to fight even if NATO, the UN, the EU all shut down.

On the other hand, the fact that the US gave Germany money for rebuilding in the immediate aftermath of WWII really is an unprecedented act of generosity.

Comment author: Lumifer 24 October 2014 06:46:49PM 18 points [-]

The west has too much trade, too much communication, too much tourism to want to fight

While that's a valid observation, similar points were made just before WW1... Also you did notice how one European nation, Russia, invaded another European nation, Ukraine, just this year -- right?

the fact that the US gave Germany money for rebuilding in the immediate aftermath of WWII really is an unprecedented act of generosity.

Not generosity. The US was building barriers against Stalin's European ambitions.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 24 October 2014 07:24:23PM 5 points [-]

While that's a valid observation, similar points were made just before WW1

Far more people have visited other countries now than in 1914. Having said that, once France and Germany were connected by trains it does seem a bit stranger that they would want to fight.

Also you did notice how one European nation, Russia, invaded another European nation, Ukraine, just this year -- right?

And the Russia stock markets crashed afterwards. But the war in the Ukraine is pretty limited with only a few thousand casualties, if it wasn't for the amount of trade esp. gas with Russia, the war might have escalated far more.

Incidentally, I'm not sure Russia counts as part of 'the west'.

Not generosity. The US was building barriers against Stalin's European ambitions.

I know, but despite that it still seems very charitable compared to the treatment of the vanquished in previous wars. If only the allies had shown the same wisdom after WWI...

Comment author: Lumifer 24 October 2014 07:29:00PM 8 points [-]

But the war in the Ukraine is pretty limited

The war in Ukraine started with Russia just grabbing an important and lucrative chunk of territory: the Crimea. The West said: "Um.. err... OK."

it still seems very charitable

What you probably mean is "not vindictive". The US was following self-interest, not doing charity.

Comment author: Azathoth123 30 October 2014 06:52:24AM 2 points [-]

The war in Ukraine started with Russia just grabbing an important and lucrative chunk of territory: the Crimea. The West said: "Um.. err... OK."

Depending on who you ask. Others would say that the war started with a US-backed coup against Ukraine's democratically elected government.

Comment author: Lumifer 30 October 2014 02:38:05PM 1 point [-]

Others would say that the war started with a US-backed coup against Ukraine's democratically elected government.

Sure, I am aware of such people, but listening to them tends to lead to severe brain damage :-/

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 27 October 2014 06:41:44AM 2 points [-]

I thought part of it was Germany starting WW2 as a result of resentment at reparations, so a more generous approach was tried.

Comment author: Lumifer 27 October 2014 02:56:07PM 2 points [-]

The Marshall Plan was not Germany-specific, it provided money for rebuilding of the entire Western Europe. It also coexisted with severe restrictions on German economy during the first post-war years, e.g.:

Even while the Marshall Plan was being implemented, the dismantling of German industry continued ... The first "level of industry" plan, signed by the Allies on March 29, 1946, had stated that German heavy industry was to be lowered to 50% of its 1938 levels by the destruction of 1,500 listed manufacturing plants.

Comment author: Azathoth123 28 October 2014 01:08:07AM 0 points [-]

Incidentally, Germany stopped paying reparations long before Hitler came to power. Not that that stopped various German governments from blaming Germany's economic problems on them.

Comment author: [deleted] 25 October 2014 12:44:02PM 2 points [-]

[The Marshall Plan was] Not generosity. The US was building barriers against Stalin's European ambitions.

I dunno, it also gave lots of money to Britain too, which is harder to explain that way. (And I just learned from Wikipedia it also offered money to the Soviet Union and its allies, though I guess it expected them to turn it down.)

Comment author: James_Miller 24 October 2014 06:11:54PM 3 points [-]

the fact that the US gave Germany money for rebuilding in the immediate aftermath of WWII really is an unprecedented act of generosity.

Sort of. Well-fed Germans excel at killing and would have been very useful to the United States in a WWIII.

Comment author: Azathoth123 25 October 2014 08:16:59AM *  0 points [-]

I doubt Germany would invade France again any time soon.

If the US became completely isolationist, including pulling out all support from NATO and dismantling the nuclear umbrella, I'd predict the next Franco-German war in 20 years max (possibly sooner).

Edit: since it wasn't clear judging by the replies, I never said that the war would start with a German attack on France.

Comment author: Emile 25 October 2014 09:04:38AM 5 points [-]

As a Frenchman with German friends, and family near the border, this seems outrageously stupid.

Comment author: Azathoth123 25 October 2014 09:58:21PM 7 points [-]

Why? There were Frenchman with German friends near the border before the two world wars as well.

Comment author: Emile 26 October 2014 10:43:57AM 1 point [-]

I'm not saying that friendships would prevent a war, I'm saying that I know people on both sides of the border and that from both point of views the idea of war is ludicrous and unthinkable. The French don't hate the Germans, the Germans don't hate the French, and the kind of flag-waving gun-toting nationalism you'd get in the US or China or Russia is highly unfashionable.

Predicting Franco-German war on a French talk show would probably get you laughed off stage ...

Comment author: Azathoth123 30 October 2014 06:53:45AM 2 points [-]

The French don't hate the Germans

Give them a decade or two under austerity, that will change.

Comment author: ChristianKl 25 October 2014 01:57:44PM *  4 points [-]

If the US became completely isolationist, including pulling out all support from NATO and dismantling the nuclear umbrella, I'd predict the next Franco-German war in 20 years max (possibly sooner).

Which what credence?

Why the heck should Germany want to wage war in the next 20 years on France?

Why should an isolationist US lead to a weaker EU instead of the EU coming more together?

Comment author: Izeinwinter 25 October 2014 12:40:37PM 7 points [-]

Ehrr... France is a nuclear power. Wholly independently so - It isn't like the british deterrent which might get a lot more expensive without US support, the French nukes are French. Made in France, mounted on french rockets, in french submarines that are propelled by french reactors. "Has a firing solution for washington DC right along with the one for Moscow" is what I am saying. Nobody is invading them.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 25 October 2014 10:25:51AM *  3 points [-]

This seems very unlikely to me. Could you explain what you think would cause this war?

Comment author: Azathoth123 25 October 2014 09:59:33PM 2 points [-]

Probably the French getting annoyed at the real or perceived German takeover of their country through the banking system.

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 24 October 2014 04:59:01PM 4 points [-]

In what ways do you differ from a typical US conservative?

Comment author: James_Miller 24 October 2014 05:43:51PM 11 points [-]

I would like the government to legalize drugs. I support strict separation of church and state, and am not bothered by gay marriage. I support a right to die for sane adults. I don't think that feelings of disgust should play any role in policy making. I think that current government policies do considerable harm to African Americans.

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 28 October 2014 12:13:40AM 4 points [-]

I believe that without USA, Russian tanks would already be in my country. Probably decades ago. And I would probably be forbidden from participating on LW. So... thanks!

Comment author: James_Miller 28 October 2014 12:26:48AM 4 points [-]

I'm happy that my tax dollars have helped enable your LW contributions.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 24 October 2014 09:22:24PM 4 points [-]

I'm a pro-U.S. military libertarian. I have the standard free market libertarian beliefs but think that the world is a vastly better place because of U.S. military power which has done much to reduce the harm that governments cause.

I'm about the same. But it's not just the US military. Most of the freedom and prosperity in the world is due to the military dominance of the entire Anglosphere.

Comment author: singularitard 28 October 2014 01:53:59PM *  -1 points [-]

Most of the freedom and prosperity in the world is due to the military dominance of the entire Anglosphere.

Mind explaining your reasoning? Or is it just jingoism?

edit: option 2 it is, then

Comment author: buybuydandavis 28 October 2014 11:36:01PM 1 point [-]

You would have gotten an answer if you had stopped at the first question.

Comment author: DanielLC 24 October 2014 06:48:43PM 0 points [-]

What's your opinion on a public military vs. mercenaries?

Comment author: James_Miller 24 October 2014 07:11:08PM 7 points [-]

Better mercenaries (volunteers) than slaves (conscripts). I generally support the U.S. government contracting out lots of responsibilities including military ones. I fear that organization such as Blackwater will become vital to U.S. power if the Blue tribe succeeds in turning our official armed forces into social justice warriors.

Comment author: BrassLion 25 October 2014 12:57:17AM 4 points [-]

What about the practical effects? Correct me if I'm wrong, but explicit mercenaries (like Blackwater) give worse results for vastly more money than normal volunteer (paid) soldiers.

I am with you on the preference for incentivizing people to go in to the military, rather than using conscription. Not being able to conscript more soldiers limits our ambitions to smaller wars against inferior powers. Then again, America seems to have a really good track record fighting giant military machines and great empires (Germany, Great Britain) and a really bad track record accomplishing our stated objectives in these regional wars against inferior militaries (Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan). Maybe I should be pushing for us to expend our military might on European plains?

Comment author: DanielLC 25 October 2014 02:51:07AM *  0 points [-]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but explicit mercenaries (like Blackwater) give worse results for vastly more money than normal volunteer (paid) soldiers.

I find this unlikely, though I haven't seen any evidence either way. Where did you learn this?

Not being able to conscript more soldiers limits our ambitions to smaller wars against inferior powers.

We can conscript as many as we want if we pay them enough. If we're willing to draft people, then why wouldn't we be willing to raise taxes?

Comment author: taelor 25 October 2014 03:52:00AM 1 point [-]

We can conscript as many as we want if we pay them enough. If we're willing to draft people, then why wouldn't we be willing to raise taxes?

Taxpayers are generally better organized politically than potential conscripts.

Comment author: BrassLion 25 October 2014 04:06:56AM 0 points [-]

By the second point, do you literally mean it's legal to conscript soldiers (it is in America at least, although starting a draft would be politically impossible absent an immediate existential threat to America as a state), or do you mean that figuratively, in that if we pay soldiers enough, we'll get more volunteers? I'm not sure what point you're making.

I will see if I can find the data on the poor performance and high cost of mercenaries.

Comment author: DanielLC 25 October 2014 09:15:04PM 0 points [-]

The second one. I seem to have misused the word "conscript".