Lumifer comments on A discussion of heroic responsibility - Less Wrong

39 Post author: Swimmer963 29 October 2014 04:22AM

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Comment author: Lumifer 03 November 2014 03:57:04AM 0 points [-]

Consider it from the view of the average wellbeing of the entire populace.

Sure. A larger government takes more of their money, limits them in areas where they would prefer to be not limited, and has scarier and more probable failure modes.

a small one simply outsources its failure modes to companies and extremely rich individuals.

No, I don't think so, not the really scary failure modes. Things like Pol Pot's Kampuchea cannot be outsourced.

People are eternal and essentially unchanging, the average level of humanity rises but slowly.

The second half of that sentence contradicts the first half.

The structure of the system they flow through is too important to be left to market forces and random chance.

I don't know of anyone who proposes random chance as a guiding political principle. As to the market forces, well, they provide the best economy human societies have ever seen. A lot of people thought they could do better -- they all turned out to be wrong.

so long as on average the lot of humanity is improved.

You're still missing a minor part -- showing that a large government does indeed do that better compared to a smaller one. By the way, are you saying that the current government size and power (say, typical for EU countries) are optimal? too small?

Comment author: Jackercrack 05 November 2014 11:59:39AM *  -1 points [-]

You misunderstand me. I am not saying that a large government is definitely better. I'm simply playing devils advocate. I find it worrying that you can't find any examples of good things in larger government though. Do socialised single payer healthcare, lower crime rates due to more police, better roads, better infrastructure, environmental protections and higher quality schools not count as benefit? These are all things that require taxes and can be improved with greater spending on them.

Edit: In retrospect maybe this is how a changed humanity looks already. That seems to fit the reality better.

Comment author: Lumifer 05 November 2014 04:16:21PM 2 points [-]

I find it worrying that you can't find any examples of good things in larger government

Of course I can. Recall me talking about the multidimensionality of government power and how most people (including me) would prefer more in one dimension but less in another. On the whole I would prefer a weaker government, but not necessarily in every single aspect.

However I would stress once again the cost-benefit balance. More is only better is you're below the optimal point, go above it and more will be worse.

Comment author: Jackercrack 05 November 2014 06:36:46PM *  -2 points [-]

And neither of us have the evidence required to find this point (if indeed it is just one point instead of several optimal peaks). I'm tapping out. If you have any closing points I'll try to take them into account in my thinking. Regardless, it seems like we agree on more than we disagree on.