timujin comments on Rationality Quotes November 2014 - Less Wrong

8 Post author: elharo 07 November 2014 07:07PM

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Comment author: timujin 06 November 2014 07:13:20PM 11 points [-]

Are there no instances in Russian which reveal a poorly categorized concept in English, or vice-versa?

Oh yes, there are. My personal pet peeve, there is no way to distinguish "difficulty" and "complexity" in Russian. There is even no simple way (or, at least, I don't know one) like "difficult as in how hard it is to do, not as in how hard it is to describe"). However, hard way (spending a minute explaining the difference and then using some shorthand) works perfectly with Russian-only speakers, even not very intelligent ones. They do seem to have that distinction in their maps, and sometimes even comment on how weird it is that it is impossible to spell it properly. I never saw anyone being confused by it.

My own favorite example is how stunningly ambiguous the word "why" seems after learning about finer distinctions like the "por que" vs "para que" distinction in Spanish.

BTW, Russian does have that distinction. Question words is one area in which Russian is superior, in my opinion.

For an example from today's news commentary: even some ardent feminists are surprised to learn that "Banksy" might be a woman, possibly because even if you know intellectually that English uses "he" as a neutral pronoun for a person of unknown gender, that's not always enough to prevent prose references to an unknown person as "he" from affecting you subliminally.

Oh, that reminds me. In Russian, every noun has a grammatical gender. Cabinet is male, keyboard is female and window is neuter. It DOES carry a lot of connotations that affect me in introspectively noticable ways.

Curious note: when rereading this post last time before posting, I noticed that in the very first paragraph, when I talked about distinction between complexity and difficulty, I used words "simple" and "hard" as literal antonyms without even noticing.

Comment author: Azathoth123 07 November 2014 02:57:01AM 3 points [-]

There is even no simple way (or, at least, I don't know one) like "difficult as in how hard it is to do, not as in how hard it is to describe").

Трудный. Although a related word that is hard to translate into Russian is "challenge".

Comment author: LizzardWizzard 12 November 2014 01:31:10PM -2 points [-]

вызов

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 20 November 2014 04:32:45PM 2 points [-]

Is there a russian word for "fun?"

Comment author: timujin 23 November 2014 06:28:58PM *  0 points [-]

Веселье. It's a bit closer to "joy" or "merry-ness", though. Why?

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 23 November 2014 06:31:13PM *  1 point [-]

Lots of other words seem to be used in similar contexts, e.g. 'prikol,' 'klyevo', maybe even 'pizdyetz' (some may be archaic, it's been a while since I had been immersed in Russian), but none of them seem to be exactly right. I think it's weird that there is no exact isomorphism from such a basic English concept.

Nobody uses the word Веселье in colloquial Russian in this sense, but people use "fun" in colloquial English all the time.

Comment author: timujin 25 November 2014 04:17:05PM 2 points [-]

I came to realise, that I use the word 'fun' in its original English pronounciation (фан) quite a lot in Russian speech, as do my peers. It seems that we have just adopted it.

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 25 November 2014 04:18:27PM *  1 point [-]

That's interesting, thank you. Russian has adapted a lot of English vocabulary in the internet age.


There is actually a bit of sneaky cultural warfare in this. After all, it's not just language that is being adopted. Language is just the audible tip of a cultural iceberg.

Comment author: Bugmaster 09 December 2014 04:28:29AM 0 points [-]

I think that "прикол" is closer to "amusing" than to "fun". "клёво" is more like "cool". And I always thought that "пиздец" was universally bad, something akin to "game over, man ! game over !" -- but words do change over time...

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 09 December 2014 05:57:10PM *  0 points [-]

I have seen the word пиздец used after surviving a near miss, or witnessing a particularly daring and successful stunt (?as an exclamation of relief?). As I said, none of them are exactly right.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 22 November 2014 03:53:48PM 0 points [-]

In Russia, state has fun with you.

Comment author: ThisSpaceAvailable 26 November 2014 03:47:24AM 0 points [-]

There a lot of distinctions that English doesn't make, such as singular second person or gerund versus present participle, and some that it makes that aren't really necessary, such as clock versus watch.

that it is impossible to spell it properly.

I'm a bit confused by the word "spell", and wonder whether you mean the fourth definition given here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spell?s=t

Comment author: timujin 28 November 2014 02:08:37PM -1 points [-]

I'm a bit confused by the word "spell", and wonder whether you mean the fourth definition given here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spell?s=t

More like the first definition. I meant, you can perform some linguistical acrobatics and say "complexity, but not difficulty" in a compact way, but that wouldn't be a proper way to say it from the perspective of strict Russian grammar, and you are not guaranteed to be universally understood.

Comment author: ThisSpaceAvailable 19 December 2014 07:19:23AM 0 points [-]

So, you are saying that it is impossible to say what letters are in the word?

Comment author: timujin 19 December 2014 04:07:34PM -2 points [-]

No.

Comment author: ThisSpaceAvailable 28 February 2015 04:31:32AM *  0 points [-]

You said "More like the first definition." The first definition is "to name, write, or otherwise give the letters, in order, of (a word, syllable, etc.)". Thus, I conclude that you are saying that it is impossible to name, write, or otherwise give the letters, in order, of the word "complexity". I have repeatedly seen people in this community talk of "verified debating", in which it is important to communicate with other people what your understanding of their statements is, and ask them whether that is accurate. And yet when I do that, with an interpretation that looks quite straightforward to me, I get downvoted, and your only response is "no", with no explanation.