nydwracu comments on Neo-reactionaries, why are you neo-reactionary? - Less Wrong

10 Post author: Capla 17 November 2014 10:31PM

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Comment author: [deleted] 22 November 2014 08:46:35PM 4 points [-]

NRx-Lefties government had no qualms about imperialism and goes ahead and conquers the savages and converts them as described above whenever it's militarily viable and economically expedient, and because NRx-leftie isn't as mean as Leopold it won't take long before the conquered people consider themselves better off and don't even want independence.

What, like the British Empire? How did that work out?

Comment author: someonewrongonthenet 22 November 2014 09:35:00PM *  2 points [-]

That's actually precisely Enlightenment Leftie's qualm.

NRx Leftie says it's different this time, because the British Empire were fairly savage themselves, because they actually didn't value the people who they considered savages as human beings. NRx Leftie said that the British Empire actually worked out fairly well, by some standards. and the bad bits were because the Brits themselves had a savage culture.

Enlightenment Leftie calls bullshit why should it be different this time, and that's pretty much why I don't really buy NRx.

(My inner Conservative-Churchill thinks the British empire was actually a net good and my inner NRx-Right adds that the independence movements triggered by liberalism are what really fucked us over.)

Comment author: [deleted] 23 November 2014 04:08:33AM 5 points [-]

The British Empire may have been materially a net good, but (as Benedict Anderson points out) it was doomed the day it embraced Macaulay's plan of cultural exterminationism through education.

"Independence movements triggered by liberalism" is a better way to put it than "independence movements", but it's not as accurate as "independence movements triggered by the combination of something involving the creation of an elite class educated in European things, often actually in Europe (or America), and later the Cold War scramble for puppet states between the two superpowers, hence their agreement on the issue of decolonization and probably Washington's shafting of Britain in Suez." Where do you think Pol Pot got his Marxism from? Certainly not Cambodia, and not even the USSR (the Khmer Rouge was a Western ally for a while) -- he got it in Paris, the center of the relevant empire.

(To take the Benedict Anderson hypothesis further, onto very speculative and shaky ground: could it be that decolonization arose out of the same impulse as Italy's misadventures in colonialism? In Italy's time, any serious nation had an empire; after WW2, any serious nation had its own state, except 'nation-states' couldn't exist because of pre-existing attachment to administrative boundaries among the elite, those boundaries having shaped their life far more in practical terms than native culture or ethnic identification. Also legibility reasons that Anderson doesn't mention AFAIK: precisely named and delineated boundaries that aren't accurate will be preferred over accurate boundaries that have yet to be drawn, because 1) the former is much more practically knowable and able to be acted upon by an organization than the latter, 2) the former are available and the latter aren't. Compare the use of states in America.)

Comment author: Azathoth123 22 November 2014 09:37:05PM 1 point [-]

Pretty well until the British lost faith in their own culture.

Comment author: polymathwannabe 23 November 2014 02:01:04AM -1 points [-]

Assuming for a moment that's what actually happened, when in history do you locate that event?