RichardKennaway comments on Welcome to Less Wrong! (7th thread, December 2014) - Less Wrong

16 Post author: Gondolinian 15 December 2014 02:57AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 06 February 2015 12:25:07PM 5 points [-]

Dear All (or whatever is the appropriate way to address the community here),

Reading Star Slate Codex kindled my interest in this community. I do not (yet) consider myself a Rationalist, largely because I don't put a disproportionately high value on the truth value of statements as opposed to their other uses, but I might be something sort of a fellow traveller because I think we have one thing in common: curiosity and the desire to investigate and analyze everything.

About me: not actually Dutch (although European, never been to the USA), my nickname is a bit of an in-joke I cannot explain without compromising my privacy. ESL, but hopefully fluent enough.

Things I would like to discuss and please guide me to the right places for this:

1) Why do you place such a high value on the truth value of statements as opposed to their other uses? For example when you are grieving for a loved one, don't you rather want to hear some comforting, soothing half-truths?

2) Same, with a focus on religion. Why do you care so much about whether they are true, as opposed to caring about whether they are socially useful or harmful, for a huge variety of purposes and optimization goals?

2/B) Shouldn't a species with a generally Low Sanity Waterline rather construct something along the lines of lest harmful / most useful Designer Religion (parallel: designer drugs) as opposed to trying to overcome it entirely? What would be the ideal features, goals, deliverables of a proper Designer Religion?

3) How can we approach the problem of ego-centrism / narcissisism rationally, which is NOT the same problem as selfishness or egoism? It is rather the problem of a disproportionate focus / attention to the self, which can be entirely coupled with unselfish altruism, for example giving charity but not focusing on the recipient but on your own virtue. This a problem, I think this is a growing problem, I think in politics narcissism or ego-centrism has traditionally been a problem of the Left and the most intelligent conservatives and religious writers (Chesterton, Burke, Oakeshott, Lewis etc.) can be seen as anti-narcissists, but they were not systematic, not principled enough - and ignored narcissism on their own side of course. This deserves a rational analysis but I don't even know where to begin! Is there something like a narcissism test for example?

4) Value judgements and personal choices. Is the Future You always right? You face the choice between going to the gym to lose weight or stay in comfortably and read. Your short term goals conflict with your long term ones. Your time preference conflicts with your other preferences. Current You would feel better staying in, Future You prefers to not be overweight. Generally it is said wise people who have self-control and whatnot, respected people choose the preferences of Future You. But if you keep pleasing Future You, you will very literally never be happy. And if you keep pleasing Current You, you end up an unhealthy addicted trainwreck. What is the rational strategy?

5) Testosterone and masculinity. I used to be the typicial intellectual "gamma rabbit" man who dislikes it, see Carl Sagan on testosterone poisoning. I used to be influenced by Redpillers to the opposite, then I realized they are, how to put it, not the kind of people I want to take my advice from. Vox Day does a "great job" of inadvertedly convincing people like me to not want to have ANYTHING to do with people like them. Now I stand confused in the middle. Right now I try to play both sides of the game, be a good husband and dad at home and a fierce fighter in the boxing gym (the keyword is "try", as in, fiercely trying not to collapse from exhaustion during sandbag work). I don't know if anyone tried to analyze this rationally, what is best etc.

6) Discuss Jack Donovan. Dude be crazy. Also, intelligent and writing well-researched stuff. Also, he is evil. What not to like?

7) Thomas Aquinas. Theist or not theist, he was a genius. Even if you see theology as a form of fantasy fiction, he was leaps and bounds the best, most structured, most logical fantasy writer. You want superhuman machine intelligence? It will probably have to cross through the phases of very high human intelligence. One phase of your AI will be "AIquinas".

8) Pet topic: how to un-fuckup Eastern Europe? I intend to live there, so quite motivated. Example: how to convince people that thinking in categories of players and suckers is not such a good idea or cooperation is a good one? Is there such a thing as escaping the corruption spiral?

Comment author: RichardKennaway 06 February 2015 02:56:33PM 1 point [-]

And while I'm thinking about Aquinas, I remember I once wrote this pastiche of the method:

Whether the composition of the Summa Theologiae was an act of bizarre monomania divorced from reality?

Objection 1: The Angelic Doctor was learned in all of the theology and scripture that preceded him, and drew it into a single coherent work that has not been superceded. Therefore, this was a valuable and mighty deed, and not an act of bizarre monomania divorced from reality.

Objection 2: The Church has blessed his work and canonised its author. Therefore, etc.

On the contrary, It is written that the author himself, after seven years labour cast his work aside, saying that it was of straw, and did not pick up his pen again before he died soon after.

I answer that, It was an act of bizarre monomania divorced from reality. For it is written that there is only One Holy Book, the manuscript of nature, the only scripture which can enlighten the reader. And the Summa makes no reference to anything but the writings and philosophical speculations of the past. Therefore, it fails to read of that Book which alone can enlighten the reader.

Furthermore, the form in which the Summa is written, listing for each point of doctrine objections, contrary objection, verdict, and refutation of the opposing objections, lends itself to argument in favour of any view whatever; in contrast to the method of logic and experiment, which does not lend itself to argument in favour of any view whatever, but only (save for our fallible natures), in favour of that which is true and can be tested. Therefore the Summa proves no point of doctrine, but rather provides only a form of catechism to be recited in favour of the official doctrine.

Reply to Objection 1. The writings of the past are valuable as a source of truth, only in so far as they ultimately rest on observation of nature. Neither theology nor scripture rest upon observation of nature.

Reply to Objection 2. Those who themselves value a work, do not by that act prove the value of that work.