Leonhart comments on 2014 Survey Results - Less Wrong

87 Post author: Yvain 05 January 2015 07:36PM

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Comment author: Leonhart 04 January 2015 11:09:40PM *  12 points [-]

Data point: I picked this option, because of a grab-bag of vaguely related positions in my head that make me feel dissatisfied with the flat "atheist" option, including:

  • I enjoy and endorse rituals such as the Solstice celebration, as opposed to the set here who are triggered by them (ETA: not in any way claiming they are wrong to be so triggered, or don't have reasons)
  • I find the Virtues, and other parts of the Sequences with similar styling, to be deeply moving and uplifting, and consider this element of our house style to be a strength rather than a liability
  • We worry too damn much about the c-word, in a pointless attempt to appease the humourless, and we've compromised too much of our aesthetic identity doing it
  • Scott's Moloch isn't actually the Devil, but maybe acting as if is a good strategy for recruiting all parts of our minds to the fight. Ditto for Elua
  • After some experimentation, I think I understand better what the mindstate associated with "worshiping" actually feels like (really damn good) and suspect that the emotional benefits are totally available even if you know the targeted god doesn't exist

(I actually wish it was reversed to "religious but not spiritual", because "spiritual" feels more like the "supernatural/irreducibly mental" word, whereas "religious" feels more of a piece with perfectly sensible things like not breaking my word even to save humanity. But that's just me.)

I have no idea whether this is remotely related to postrationalism; if anyone actually knows what postrationalism is, please write a FAQ. I do miss Newsome though; he wrote my favourite ever LW sentence.

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 05 January 2015 10:41:54AM 2 points [-]

I have no idea whether this is remotely related to postrationalism; if anyone actually knows what postrationalism is, please write a FAQ.

There's Postrationality, Table of Contents, though the author hasn't written any follow-up posts yet.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 05 January 2015 05:34:02PM 3 points [-]

There's Postrationality, Table of Contents, though the author hasn't written any follow-up posts yet.

Postrationality appears to stand in the same relation to rationality as Romanticism did to the Enlightenment. That is, a falling away from the Way, not a progression past it; the easy, broad path and not the strait and narrow path that must be walked to hit the small target of truth.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 05 January 2015 05:55:51PM *  3 points [-]

In particular, rationality tends to give advice like “ignore your intuitions/feelings, and rely on conscious reasoning and explicit calculation”.

I can't tell if this is an Ideological Turing Test failure, or just a lie.

Comment author: Leonhart 05 January 2015 06:32:59PM 1 point [-]

Upvoted for informing me that "straight and narrow" was a malformation. Also, yes.

Comment author: Leonhart 05 January 2015 06:33:52PM *  0 points [-]

Ah, yes. I read that page and scrunchyfaced, back when Scott posted the map. (Although I seem to remember reading other things on the same blog that were better thought out, so maybe the author was having an off day.)

I hope that something more rigorous and interesting comes along. The defensible heart of the position, it seems to me, could be something along the lines of "Yes, we must be ready to relinquish our beliefs with the slightest breath of the winds of evidence. But exactly so long as we do believe A, let's really believe it. Let's not deny ourselves the legitimate Fun that can reside in savouring a belief, including any combination of robes and chanting that seems appropriate."

Comment author: covaithe 06 January 2015 05:36:34PM 2 points [-]

I quite like this formulation, and if I had thought of it at survey time I might well have answered 'atheist(spiritual)' instead of 'atheist(nonspiritual)'.

Regarding emotional benefits: I sing in moderately serious classical choirs, where inevitably much of the music is set to religious texts. I get some but not all of the emotional benefits from this that I used to get from religious worship, back when I was a committed theist. I think I would get more benefits if the texts were not religious, and still more if the texts were humanist / rationalist / expressed beliefs that I actively profess.

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