fortyeridania comments on Rationality Quotes Thread February 2015 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: Vaniver 01 February 2015 03:53PM

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Comment author: Torello 04 February 2015 05:22:41AM *  1 point [-]

Maybe I should have included the whole paragraph:

"And even when "truth" can be clearly defined, it is a concept to which natural selection is indifferent. To be sure, if an accurate portrayal of reality, to oneself or to others can help spread one's genes, then accuracy of perception or communication may evolve. And often this will be the case (when, say, you remember where food is stored, and share the data with offspring or siblings). But when accurate reporting and genetic interest do thus intersect, that's just a happy coincidence. Truth and honesty are never favored by natural selection in and of themselves. Natural selection neither "prefers" honesty nor "prefers" dishonesty. It just doesn't care."

He's talking about the "maps" that humans/animals may carry in their brains. These maps don't need to match the territory to be adaptive (I think your criticism of the quote hinges on how you would define "significantly"). But there's quite a bit of space where a "bad map" does not prevent adaptive behavior.

For example, some non-venomous snakes "copied" the color patterns of venomous snakes. It's still adaptive for animals to avoid all snakes with this coloring (just to be safe) without needing to know the truth about which snake is dangerous and which isn't. And natural selection is "rewarding" the non-venomous snake for lying about how dangerous it is.

Comment author: fortyeridania 04 February 2015 06:51:54AM 0 points [-]

This additional context does help; thanks.

It's still adaptive for animals to avoid all snakes with this coloring (just to be safe)

Yes, this could be adaptive, but not costless. An animal that avoids all snakes that look venomous misses out on some opportunities (e.g., foraging for food in a tree occupied by a harmless but dangerous-seeming snake). The opportunity cost, in reproductive terms, might be negligible, or it might matter, depending on the specifics. (Here I'm agreeing with you when you point to the importance of the term "significantly.")

Because the truth, even in small matters like snake coloration, can make a difference, the original quotation is an overstatement.

Comment author: Torello 05 February 2015 12:43:00AM 0 points [-]

Because the truth, even in small matters like snake coloration, can make a difference, the original quotation is an overstatement.

All natural selection "cares about" is genes copied. Claws, peacock tail feathers, and "maps" can all "make a difference," but natural selection only acts on the results (genes copied); natural selection itself doesn't favor any particular kind of adaptation, that's why I think the original quote is not an overstatement.