skeptical_lurker comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapters 105-107 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: b_sen 17 February 2015 01:17AM

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Comment author: gRR 18 February 2015 06:08:09AM 4 points [-]

I am confused about how Philosopher's stone could help with reviving Hermione. Does QQ mean to permanently transfigure her dead body into a living Hermione? But then, would it not mean that Harry could do it now, albeit temporarily? And, he wouldn't even need a body. He could then just temporarily transfigure any object into a living Hermione. Also, now that I think of it, he could transfigure himself a Feynman and a couple of Einsteins...

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 18 February 2015 06:49:19AM 0 points [-]

Transfiguring someone into existence just so they can die a few hours later would certainly be regarded as dark arts. If Harry ends the transfiguration on Hermione's dead body, they QQ can use it as a template, whereas it might not be possible to transfigure Feynman for the same reason you can't transfigure a lightsaber.

Comment author: CellBioGuy 18 February 2015 07:26:01AM *  8 points [-]

Hypothesis:

Quirrel will restore Hermione to life. He will also gain access to a Hermione template that he can use on inanimate matter to create more of her to threaten Harry with the torture of.

This doesn't even require him to have the stone. It would work perfectly well with temporary copies too.

Comment author: Subbak 18 February 2015 08:49:55AM 4 points [-]

If this was feasible then all Dark Wizards would probably be using temporary clones of their minions to do their bidding instead of real minions.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 18 February 2015 11:30:31AM 8 points [-]

There are three possibilities here:

1) It takes longer to clone someone than the transfigureation lasts, so by the time you have cloned their feet, their head has detransfigured. (This assumes that humans are so complex that you have to concentrate on one part of them at a time, like Harry's pencil.) In this case, cloning is useless.

2) It takes longer to clone someone than the transfigureation lasts, but the time-limit starts once the transfigureation is complete. In this case, cloning minions is still useful for increasing numbers before a battle, or for suicide missions, but the dark lord would also have to work out that the body needs to be kept cold (otherwise parts of it would die while you are transfiguring other parts) and then warmed and brought to life with a defibrillator. Its quite possible no-one would ever have thought of this, and had the skill and moral flexibility to implement it.

3) It takes less time to clone someone than the transfigureation lasts. In this case, the earth would quickly be overrun by self-replicating minions.

Comment author: TobyBartels 19 February 2015 08:36:24AM 2 points [-]

So (3) can be ruled out on empirical grounds.

Comment author: Subbak 19 February 2015 11:45:35PM 1 point [-]

It is still weird, though. Do we have any bounds on the relation between size of the object and time you can maintain the transfiguration. Harry can maintain (without contact) some transfigurations for a pretty long time, even with a large-ish object like a cauldron. Unless the time you can maintain a transfiguration decreases very fast with the size of the end object (Harry transfigured a unicorn and a big rock into something small and maintained it easily), there is no reason why Quirrel would not be able to create transfigured clones able to clone themselves. And we know that transfiguring an inanimate object into something living can easily be done for strong wizards, as McGonnagle proved early in the story with the desk into pig thing.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 18 February 2015 11:43:42AM 0 points [-]

Right now, Quirrel holds all the cards, certainly against Harry, and Dumbledoor has shown himself to be immune to blackmail.

But maybe later.