Bugmaster comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapter 109 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: Gondolinian 23 February 2015 08:05PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (160)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: DanielLC 24 February 2015 02:19:19AM *  1 point [-]

Didn't Harry already point out that the time travel was not computable, and as a result it couldn't be a simulation? Although he didn't go to great lengths to prove that. He assumed that there was no force subtly manipulating events to make sure time travel is consistent. In fact, he is in a simulation run on the computer that is Eliezer's brain.

Comment author: Bugmaster 24 February 2015 02:21:13AM 2 points [-]

I don't know if he put it into exactly those terms, but a). Harry points out a lot of things that aren't true, like "you can't turn into a cat", and b). if the laws of reality are simulated, then they don't have to make sense; they could just be a giant "switch" statement somewhere in the Atlantean VM code.

Comment author: DanielLC 24 February 2015 03:29:14AM 0 points [-]

If the laws of reality are simulated, then they must be computable. A giant switch statement isn't going to let you figure out how to make time travel consistent. They couldn't easily check every possibility and see if it's consistent. Even if they did, that would mean they're simulating all of them, including the inconsistent ones, and there'd be no reason for Harry to find himself in a consistent one.

Comment author: Bugmaster 24 February 2015 03:55:11AM 3 points [-]

They couldn't easily check every possibility and see if it's consistent.

Why not ? It's not like the laws of our space-time apply to them or anything.

Comment author: Jost 24 February 2015 09:35:40AM *  12 points [-]

Atlantis-Human: “Where did you learn about computability, Harry?”

Harry: “… in the Matrix.”

A-H: “The Matrix tells elegant lies.”

Comment author: alienist 24 February 2015 06:00:37AM 1 point [-]

If the laws of reality are simulated, then they must be computable.

Depends on what they're being stimulated on.

Comment author: Astazha 24 February 2015 08:01:12PM 0 points [-]

The anthropic principle solves Harry finding himself in a consistent one nicely. We don't know about the paradoxical universes because time/magic destroys them. You could also propose that when paradox occurs time goes back to the point of paradox and makes changes, inserts prophecies, etc. (maybe even uses mind magic?) to attempt to correct, destroying only the portion of the time-stream that came after. In this version there is actually just one time stream, not many, and it loads from the last checkpoint so to speak whenever a paradox results.

Results like "DO NOT MESS WITH TIME" really imply an outside intelligence that is meddling to ensure consistent outcomes, rather than a universe that runs only on physical law. This isn't a reponse Harry would have thought of, it was inserted from somewhere external.

Regarding "computational difficulty":

1) We don't know what magic/time/the external universe is capable of, computationally. Magic does "impossible" stuff all the time. 2) It doesn't matter how difficult it is to compute or how long it takes. These things are transparent from an inside perspective. 1 second in-world could take a billion years to calculate, and it would still seem seamless from the inside.

Comment author: avichapman 24 February 2015 05:42:27AM 0 points [-]

It the simulation were infinitly parrallel and all simulations that weren't consistent crashed, the Harry that made the observation about the loop would necessarily be in a self-consistent simulation.