linkhyrule5 comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapter 112 - Less Wrong

4 Post author: Gondolinian 25 February 2015 09:00PM

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Comment author: Vaniver 25 February 2015 11:11:08PM 3 points [-]

So, the next chapter.

  1. Voldemort has some continued use for Harry. It could be personal (chess?), political (Light Lord?), magical (not sure?), theatrical (and now, my minions, I destroy the Boy Who Lived!), or some combination thereof.
  2. For many of those uses, it makes sense to tell the Death Eaters to not harm Harry, while also demonstrating his dominance over Harry, since the Death Eaters run on dominance.
  3. Harry has been repeatedly shown that Voldemort is better than he is at this game, and he won't have a chance for decades, and that his meddling routinely makes things worse (both Voldemort's plan around Hermione and Dumbledore's plan around Voldemort were ruined by his meddling). He could go quietly, or he could continue trying to win. As a piece of literature, I think I expect Harry to try to win; even when he can't come up with good plans / his mind refuses to think of things, he still goes with things that are mistakes rather than do nothing. As a piece of pedagogy, I'm not sure which to expect: persistence is a virtue, but so is not being a damn fool about it.
Comment author: linkhyrule5 25 February 2015 11:18:50PM 2 points [-]

To be fair to Harry, neither of those are good examples - Voldemort's plan also had Hermione in Azkaban thinking she had murdered Draco Malfoy for two weeks, which would have had... unpleasant effects on her mental health, and there's a pretty sharp limit to how much you can count "going along with a hostage situation at gunpoint" as "meddling." A mistake, yes, intentional meddling, no.

Comment author: Vaniver 26 February 2015 12:04:04AM *  0 points [-]

which would have had... unpleasant effects on her mental health

I'm not saying that the alternative was good--just that the alternative was better.

there's a pretty sharp limit to how much you can count "going along with a hostage situation at gunpoint" as "meddling."

I am considering primarily the earlier mistakes Harry made with respect to Quirrell.

Comment author: linkhyrule5 26 February 2015 12:18:23AM 2 points [-]

Was it?

I really don't think the alternative was better than the canonical "Harry gets her out of there at a reasonably low cost considering all the myriad ways he has of making tons of money".

I mean, given that his opponent turned out to be Quirrell, maybe, but otherwise...

Which earlier mistakes were these?

Comment author: Vaniver 26 February 2015 02:49:01AM 2 points [-]

Which earlier mistakes were these?

The chief of them is the one that Harry realizes:

The part that was numb with grief and guilt took this opportunity to observe, speaking of obliviousness, that after events at Hogwarts had turned serious, they really really really REALLY should have reconsidered the decision made on First Thursday, at the behest of Professor McGonagall, not to tell Dumbledore about the sense of doom that Harry got around Professor Quirrell. It was true that Harry hadn't been sure who to trust, there was a long stretch where it had seemed plausible that Dumbledore was the bad guy and Professor Quirrell the heroic opposition, but...

Dumbledore would have realised.

Comment author: ChristianKl 26 February 2015 09:50:28AM 0 points [-]

I think Dumbledore did realize the fact that the Defense Professor is Voldemort, so that's no consequential error on Harry's part.

Comment author: Jost 26 February 2015 10:33:49AM 0 points [-]

Did he? The beginning of chapter 110 seems to suggest otherwise:

Dumbledore's grimness had returned and redoubled. "There I am, searching so hard for Voldemort's shade, never noticing that the Defense Professor of Hogwarts is a sickly, half-dead victim possessed by a spirit far more powerful than himself. I would call it senility, if so many others had not missed it as well."

Comment author: ChristianKl 26 February 2015 10:55:42AM 1 point [-]

That's sarcasm.

Comment author: Jost 26 February 2015 01:55:22PM 5 points [-]

That precise wording might carry sarcastic undertones. However, the bewilderment right before that seemed (and still seems, on second reading) genuine to me:

The grimness on Albus Dumbledore's face lasted only an instant before giving way to bewilderment. "Quirinus? What -"

And then there was a pause.

"Well," said Albus Dumbledore. "I do feel stupid."

Comment author: Velorien 26 February 2015 08:09:50PM 2 points [-]

It's also an eerie echo of Lucius Malfoy:

There was a long pause, then. The grey eyes searched him. “Of course...” said Lucius slowly. “I do feel the fool now. This whole time you were just pretending to have no idea what we were talking about.”

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