Gondolinian comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, March 2015, chapter 114 + chapter 115 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: Gondolinian 03 March 2015 06:02PM

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Comment author: Gondolinian 03 March 2015 06:26:48PM 5 points [-]

As opposed to? (I wasn't keeping close track of the theories as we went forward).

Those who tried to honestly persuade or verbally trick Voldemort into letting Harry out of the box.

Comment author: Alsadius 03 March 2015 06:29:48PM -1 points [-]

Despite the fact that the rules of the exam specifically prohibited such?

Comment author: Gondolinian 03 March 2015 06:33:09PM *  7 points [-]

They prohibited saying something too abstract, like "Harry comes up with a way to persuade Voldemort to let him out of the box." They did not prohibit actually figuring out a way to persuade Voldemort. By extension, it would also not be allowed to say "Harry comes up with a way to kill all the Death Eaters with magic." It just had to be specific enough.

Comment author: Alsadius 03 March 2015 06:41:57PM *  0 points [-]

3) Voldemort is evil and cannot be persuaded to be good; the Dark Lord's utility function cannot be changed by talking to him.

Comment author: MathMage 03 March 2015 06:46:11PM *  6 points [-]

He doesn't have to be persuaded to be good, he just has to be persuaded to let Harry out of the box. If he lets Harry out of the box for non-good reasons, that still counts.

Comment author: Ander 03 March 2015 06:55:16PM 4 points [-]

The rules stated that we couldn't change Voldemort's utility function or turn him good, but his utility function already placed an extremely high value on not having the world destroyed, or losing his immortality. It was quite possible that the solution would have been to convince him that killing Harry would end the world, or that he required Harry in the future in order to save it. The Vow and the parseltongue both were valuable tools in convincing Voldemort of this.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 03 March 2015 06:50:44PM 8 points [-]

Voldemort doesn't want the world destroyed, and he just made Harry into a world-destruction-preventer. Pointing this out — and pointing out that Harry is now a better world-destruction-preventer than Voldemort could become — doesn't involve changing Voldemort's utility function.

(Voldemort can't swear an Unbreakable Vow akin to Harry's because nobody has trust in him that could be sacrificed to power it.)

Comment author: DanielLC 03 March 2015 08:06:01PM 5 points [-]

He didn't make Harry into a world-destruction-preventer. He only made Harry swear not to actively destroy the world. Also, while Merlin might think that with all the effort Voldemort went through to prevent Harry from destroying the world it would be easier to destroy the world with a piece of cheese, I wouldn't find that so comforting.