Open thread, Mar. 16 - Mar. 22, 2015

6 Post author: MrMind 16 March 2015 08:13AM

If it's worth saying, but not worth its own post (even in Discussion), then it goes here.


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Comments (302)

Comment author: Vaniver 17 March 2015 03:18:15AM *  12 points [-]

So, several years ago I was moved by my primary dissatisfaction with HPMoR and my enjoyment of MLP to start a rationalist MLP fanfic. (There are at least two others, that occupied very different spheres, which I will get to in a bit.)

My main dissatisfaction with HPMoR was that Harry is almost always the teacher, not the student; relatedly, his cleverness far outstrips his wisdom. It is only at the very end, after he nearly loses everything, that he starts to realize how difficult it is to get things right, and even then he does not fully get it. Harry is the sort of character that the careful reader can learn from, but not the sort of character one should try to emulate.

MLP's protagonist, Twilight Sparkle, is in many ways the opposite character: instead of being overconfident and arrogant, she is anxious and (generally) humble. Where Harry has difficulty seeing others as equals or useful, Twilight genuinely relies on her friends. Most of Harry's positive characteristics, though, Twilight shares--or could plausibly share with little modification. (In HP terms, she's basically what would have happen if bookish Hermione had been the Girl-Who-Lived, with the accompanying leadership potential, and Harry Potter, the athletic Gryffindor seeker, was just one of her friends.)

So I had the clever idea to write a series of five scenes where Twilight learned a rationality lesson from each of the other five primary characters (yes, even Pinkie Pie, and that one actually wasn't hard to write). And then once I was thinking of a rationalist Twilight, an overall story formed around those scenes. I also wanted to write a story which had more of a Hansonian growth curve--yes, things are growing and a clever protagonist is constantly improving things around herself, but she's not the only PC in the world, and doesn't necessarily stand out as particularly effective. She might get a nice palace and lead a growing and exciting startup, but she's not going to become the Singleton, and she's more likely to have a bunch of exciting and energetic friends than be a lonely genius. (The primary two rationalist MLP fanfics that I'm aware of--not including any of PhilGoetz's stuff--are one in which a pony-flavored Singleton dominates the real world, and one in which a HPMoR-esque protagonist drops into the MLP world and does HPMoR-esque things.)

But, since I'm not celebrating finishing that story, obviously things went wrong. The primary ones:

  1. My first project was not something temporary. This is the advice they give for any physical craft--don't make your first set of bookshelves for yourself, or your first scarf, or so on. You're going to muck something up, and to this day my primary scarf has a bit of a trapezoidal slant at the end of it because I didn't quite have the hang of how to crochet the end of a row. If I had made a dishrag to make my rookie mistakes on and then a scarf to wear, the scarf would have been fine. The application to fiction is obvious. Not only does it have deep problems, it isn't even done. (I do have a finished, joke story written in response to one of Eliezer's Facebook posts, which isn't any better but is at least a complete work.)
  2. As the above suggests, I'm not very good at writing fiction. Like most people who DMed at some point, I did a fair bit of it when I was younger--but it never ascended to full hobby status. Arguing and forum-posting did, but that's a fairly different skill.
  3. Continuing the trend, I don't find writing fiction all that rewarding. PhilGoetz, at some point, described himself as having to write. Perhaps the same is true of me, but I find that urge adequately satisfied by nonfiction, and I suspect the world is better off with another book review or an introductory causality lesson plan / textbook than it is with another piece of rationalist fiction (conditioned on me writing it, at least).

But with HPMoR finished, I feel the itch again. Especially in the light of the Final Exam and its resolution. (As Sun Tzu put it, "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.") But just diving into it again because the itch has returned does not a plan for success make. Here are the things I'm thinking about (and please, feel free to suggest other things to think about):

  1. Finish the original idea--the five chapters where Twilight learns a lesson from each of her friends--and publish it as its own work. (This is mostly done, and would just need some editing.) Gradually build out the full story as a separate thing when you have the time and interest.
  2. Seek more serious help from other writers--not just editing, but possibly full coauthorship, or sliding further down the scale towards commissions. (I haven't fully sorted out my priorities here, but I think I care enough to use some units of caring on this.)
  3. Drop this idea as less valuable than other projects. I don't have the introspection ability to be sure about energy/motivation, but I suspect this would draw from the same motivation budget as nonfiction writing projects, and it certainly would draw from the same time budget.

(By the way, here is the link to it; I last updated it about a year ago.)

Comment author: Alicorn 17 March 2015 07:10:23AM *  6 points [-]

I have not read your story yet, but if I wait till I get around to it, I will forget to inform you that I have been known to accept commissions.

Comment author: Zian 22 March 2015 11:21:11PM 2 points [-]

I suggest doing #1 and #2 in parallel.

As you said, the story is mostly done and just needs editing. That will require help from other people and can happen while you do other things. It will be good for you to be able to say "Behold, I have finished this thing."

At the same time, as you tackle the full story as a separate thing, it may be worth giving it your best effort (by pulling in #2) so that after a few months, you can say "I tried really hard and it didn't work. Alas. Time to stop." or the opposite, without having to wonder if you just didn't try hard enough.

Comment author: [deleted] 17 March 2015 04:32:48AM *  11 points [-]

I'm going to be doing a Rationality / Sequences reading group. Sorry I've been busy the last few days since the book came out, but I'll be making an introductory posting soon. The plan is to cover one sequence every two weeks covering the whole book over the course of a year.

Comment author: Rukiedor 16 March 2015 06:36:01PM 10 points [-]

I think I recall seeing somewhere that the open thread is a good place for potentially silly questions. So I've got one to ask.

As long as I can remember small things give me the willies. Objects around the size of a penny or smaller trigger a kind of revulsion response if I have to handle them. Things like small coins, those paper circles created when using a hole punch, those stickers that they stick on fruit. I'm not typically bothered by handling a lot of the objects at the same time, a handful of pennies wouldn't bother me.

One thing that's odd, well aside from everything else about it, is that it seems to be especially triggered by jewelry. Rings, basically any piercings, even smallish necklaces. I'm alright as long as they don't get too close to me, but I start feeling weird if I have to interact with them.

Anyway, I've always thought this was pretty strange and it recently occurred to me that someone here probably has some idea of what's going on. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 16 March 2015 08:18:22PM 6 points [-]

Interesting. Great that you shared it. Have never heard of something like this. To me it looks like one basic fear pattern matching gone wrong (wired differently than usual in the brain). I mean there must be some pre-wiring of object recognition in the brain that triggers on e.g. spider-like and snake-like forms. Why should such a wiring go wrong (mutation or whatever) and pattern-match against small-ringlike.

See also What universal experiences are you missing without realizing it. Where people mention a lot special things and maybe by now you can find something comparable to yours.

Comment author: Rukiedor 17 March 2015 02:24:56AM 2 points [-]

Ha, it was actually looking through the Universal Experiences comments that prompted me to come here and ask if anyone had any experience with something like this. I didn't see anything in the comments there that sounded similar.

I kind of doubt it's related to fear triggers, because I don't like spiders either, and my aversion to spiders feels very different from this. Interesting thing to think about though. Thanks.

Comment author: chaosmage 16 March 2015 10:22:28PM 5 points [-]

I'm not a doctor, but this sounds like Mikrophobia. I do recognize you're describing your feelings as a kind of revulsion, not fear proper, but still that'd the best pattern match I got.

I suggest you talk to a psychiatrist or psychotherapist about it, because if it is that, your issue is very solvable. Phobias are one of the easiest-to-treat psychological issues; desensitization and cognitive-behavioral therapy work quite well.

Comment author: Rukiedor 17 March 2015 02:33:50AM 1 point [-]

Interesting, not exactly the same thing, but it does sound similar. You're probably right about desensitization, there are some rather small things I can handle without problem. I'll have to give that a shot. Thanks.

Comment author: Toggle 18 March 2015 10:43:53PM *  3 points [-]

My housemate has this exact problem- right down to the issues with jewelry in particular. If she has to shake hands with somebody who's wearing a metal ring, she has to sort of ritualistically wipe off her hands afterwards. Metal in general seems to trigger the reaction much more strongly, so she'll have problems with loose coins but not stickers.

It's been persistent throughout her life, I understand, but exposure therapy has reduced its severity.

Comment author: Rukiedor 19 March 2015 02:52:04PM 2 points [-]

That is very interesting. Kind of validating, and one more bit of evidence in favor of trying exposure therapy. Thank you for sharing that.

Comment author: [deleted] 17 March 2015 10:34:30AM 2 points [-]

Maybe childhood training against choking hazards.

I was once hospitalized for months at 5 years old, and the had exhibitions on the wall of the small stuff kids stuffed into their noses or ears and had to be removed surgically. It was scary. I was afraid of them. The fact I still remember it means it may be traumatic, may have been something like that for you.

How do you handle eating or cooking lentils?

Comment author: Rukiedor 17 March 2015 03:28:02PM 1 point [-]

That's an interesting possibility. I don't have any particularly strong memories of being warned about choking hazards, about the only one I remember is warnings about plastic bags.

For lentils, I'm fine handling them in bulk, and eating spoonfuls of them doesn't bother me. When most of them are gone, and there are only a few scattered in my plate or bowl they start to trigger the revulsion a little bit, although not nearly as strong as many other things.

This actually seems to suggest that there is some desensitization going on. I never had lentils until I was an adult, I have however been eating rice for as long as I can remember, and individual rice grains don't trigger the reaction under most circumstances. Small candies, like skittles, m&ms, smarties, etc. don't really trigger it either, in most circumstances, which again, I have been eating since childhood.

Comment author: chaosmage 16 March 2015 10:11:02PM 9 points [-]

What resources would you recommend for skilled, highly-specialized, employed EU citizens looking for employment in the US?

Comment author: is4junk 21 March 2015 03:17:10PM 2 points [-]

I'd look for a good headhunter in your field (assuming it is not too niche). Let them get the commission for finding you a job.

  • Update your linkedin profile and see if any contact you.
  • Talk to a recruiter in a company that is a near fit for you even if they aren't hiring now and ask if they have worked with any headhunters in the past.
  • Go to a Job fair in the US - not for job but to interview headhunters
Comment author: chaosmage 25 March 2015 01:51:40PM 0 points [-]

Thank you!

Comment author: Artaxerxes 19 March 2015 06:42:12PM 8 points [-]

Gates goes into a little bit more detail on his views on AI.

Interviewer:

Yesterday there was a lot of talk here on machine intelligence and I know you had expressed some concerns about how machines are making leaps in processing ability. What do you think we should be doing?

Gates:

There are two different threat models for AI. One is simply the labor substitution problem. That, in a certain way, seems like it should be solvable because what you are really talking about is an embarrassment of riches. But it is happening so quickly. It does raise some very interesting questions given the speed with which it happens.

Then you have the issue of greater-than-human intelligence. That one, I’ll be very interested to spend time with people who think they know how we avoid that. I know Elon [Musk] just gave some money. A guy at Microsoft, Eric Horvitz, gave some money to Stanford. I think there are some serious efforts to look into could you avoid that problem.

Horvitz's thing.

Musk's thing.

If Gates were to really get on board, that would be huge, I think. Fingers crossed.

Comment author: Artaxerxes 17 March 2015 05:32:50PM 7 points [-]

The World Weekly covers superintelligent AI.

It's one of the better media pieces I've read on the topic.

Bostrom, Yudkowsky, and Russell are quoted, among many others.

Comment author: Manfred 19 March 2015 03:17:44AM *  3 points [-]

Was expecting weekly world news :)

What this article really opened my eyes on is how impactful Nick Bostrom (or Bostrum) has been.

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 20 March 2015 09:14:23AM 6 points [-]

I just realized that some people object to hedonistic utilitarianism (which I've traditionally favored) on the grounds that "pleasure" and "suffering" are meaningless and ill-defined concepts, whereas I tend to find preference utilitarianism absurd on the grounds that "preference" is a meaningless and ill-defined concept.

This seems to point to a difference in how people's motivational systems appear from the inside: maybe for some, "pleasure" is an obvious, atomic concept which they can constantly observe as driving their behavior, whereas others perceive their own actions as being driven more by something like a "preference" that seems like a coherent and obvious concept to them, and others still don't feel that either of these concepts is particularly central, causing them to disregard utilitarianism. (Of course one may also reject utilitarianism for other reasons.)

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 21 March 2015 12:21:39AM 1 point [-]

I think "pleasure" and "suffering" are very meaningful and that the prospects of finding decent metrics for each are good over the long term. The problem I have with hedonistic utilitarianism is that hedons are not what I want to maximize. Don't you ever pass up opportunities to do something you know will bring you more pleasure (even in the long run), in order to achieve some other value and don't regret doing so?

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 21 March 2015 12:29:12AM 2 points [-]

Yeah, I've drifted away from hedonistic utilitarianism over time and don't particularly want to try to defend it here.

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 21 March 2015 12:46:11AM 2 points [-]

Fair enough.

Comment author: ChristianKl 20 March 2015 01:27:20PM 1 point [-]

This seems to point to a difference in how people's motivational systems appear from the inside: maybe for some, "pleasure" is an obvious, atomic concept which they can constantly observe as driving their behavior,

Remembered pleasure and pleasure felt in the moment are two distinct things, towards which is the "obvious" one?

My immediate idea of the terms pleasure and suffering is that "pleasure" is an emotion while suffering is more of an activity. The opposite of "suffering" would for me be "enjoying".

There a state where you laugh and a state of warm relaxation. Both feel good but both are different. How does pleasure relate to that? Life satisfaction is another variable in that space.

There are interactions I might have with another person where the person is going to laugh and feel energy but where the person would answer "No" if I would ask them whether they want to engage in a certain action.

If you come from preference utilitarians it's important to ensure consent. If you just care about hedonics and are skilled enough to predict the results of your action and know the actions produce pleasure, consent isn't an issue anymore.

The difference matters if you analyse what some PUA people do.

Comment author: somervta 20 March 2015 10:45:06AM 1 point [-]

Interestingly, both concepts seem worthwhile to me... and I mostly advocate a combination of hedonistic and preference utilitarianism.

Comment author: Ixiel 18 March 2015 10:40:58AM *  6 points [-]

I'll buy you sequences.

Sorry, I feel like a jerk repeating myself but this is the last time. I bought the three pack of the audio sequences on Kickstarter because there were multiple people who said they wanted it but for whom $50 was too dear. I just got the final "give us the names" email. Any takers?

Comment author: MathiasZaman 19 March 2015 08:27:17AM 3 points [-]

I'd like it as well, if you still have any. (email: king.grimmm@gmail.com)

Comment author: Ixiel 20 March 2015 05:28:44PM 4 points [-]

All set. Enjoy.

Comment author: MathiasZaman 20 March 2015 05:52:23PM 2 points [-]

Wow, awesome. Many thanks!

Comment author: jam_brand 23 March 2015 09:57:12PM 1 point [-]

I'd be happy to take you up on this if it's still available, my email is jam.br4nd@gmail.com. Many thanks for the kind offer either way!

Comment author: Ixiel 30 March 2015 10:20:15PM 0 points [-]

Sorry, I gave both out. (And sorry for delayed response, on vacation)

Comment author: CronoDAS 17 March 2015 05:18:50PM 6 points [-]

What do you link someone to if you want to persuade them to start taking cryonics seriously instead of immediately dismissing it as ridiculous nonsense? There's no one single LW post that you can send someone to that I know of.

Comment author: Caue 17 March 2015 11:56:56PM 1 point [-]

I like this.

Comment author: Dahlen 16 March 2015 08:29:20AM *  6 points [-]

In the last few years I've been thinking about all the separate mental modules that influence productivity, procrastination, akrasia etc. in their own unique ways. (The one thing that's for sure is that the ability to get stuff done isn't monolithic.) This is how my breakdown of the psychology of productivity looks like, and I have a hunch that these are all separate and generate their own effects independently (more or less) of the others:

  • a baseline level of energy or willingness to take control of your own life
  • an affinity-based system that makes you autonomously pick some activities over others
  • a willpower system that makes you keep going in spite of difficulties
  • a "negative willpower" system that helps you abstain from temptations or impulses
  • a response-to-incentives feature that regulates how extrinsic factors influence behavior
  • a set of time-dependent responses that generate, among others: temporal discounting; putting off tasks; anxiety as deadline approaches; desperate last-minute efforts

Is this right? Discuss.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 19 March 2015 03:12:10PM *  5 points [-]
Comment author: [deleted] 16 March 2015 04:19:56PM *  5 points [-]

On spaced repetition / Anki:

When I started to work after college I was surprised when people asked "How comes you don't know X? Haven't you read the manual?" I was surprised because in college it take more than one reading, a form of repetition, to learn, know and remember things. I would replay "I have read it, but have not yet memorized it."

Interestingly, later on, I managed to remember things after one reading, not details, but the general idea.

I wonder about the popularity of Anki and spaced repetition here. I am experimenting it for conditioning, but for learning, do you really need to remember things in more detail than a single reading allows, if you aren't preparing for college exams anymore?

Note: I think the remembering after one reading worked later on, because it was more of the which of the options to choose. Like where do you find the inventory cost report? Obvious candidates are warehouse menu and finance menu. I think in college I needed to memorize things when the answer was not choosing from known options but something I could not even imagine.

Are you using spaced repetition because you have more of the second type?

The good thing about becoming an expert in a narrow field is that sooner or later you know all the options, which means you are a lightning fast learner. You just look at something, take a not of which of the known options it has, and know all about it. Like a doctor making a diagnosis. Checkmark checkmark checkmark.

Comment author: is4junk 16 March 2015 05:01:26PM 3 points [-]

For most of the work stuff I find it easier to remember where to find things rather than the things themselves. The hard stuff is the undocumented and constantly changing locations and procedures where a search is likely to find out of date junk.

Comment author: Tryagainslowly 16 March 2015 12:05:50PM 5 points [-]

Could someone help me out with the LessWrong wiki? I made an account called Tryagainslowly on it; it wouldn't let me use my LessWrong account, instead making me register for the wiki independently. I wanted to post in the discussion for the wiki page entitled "Rationality". The discussion page didn't have anything posted in it. I wrote out my post, and attempted to post it, but it wouldn't let me, telling me new pages cannot be created by new editors. What do I need to do in order to submit my post? I'm happy to show what I was intending to post here if anyone wants me to.

Comment author: Tryagainslowly 18 March 2015 11:33:11AM 3 points [-]

It works now! It just required waiting a bit. Thanks for the help Gunnar_Zarncke.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 16 March 2015 03:30:48PM 2 points [-]

It takes some time for the Wiki accounts to get in sync with the LW account, just wait some time (a day?). I guess its some Troll protection.

Comment author: ciphergoth 16 March 2015 05:22:18PM 8 points [-]

You're giving this advice to that account handle?

Comment author: Tryagainslowly 16 March 2015 04:18:58PM 2 points [-]

Thanks, I'll wait and see.

Comment author: ciphergoth 16 March 2015 02:22:00PM *  4 points [-]

In Our Own Image: Will artificial intelligence save or destroy us? by George Zarkadakis was published by Random House on 5 March. I haven't read it, but from a search on Google Books, there's no mention of "Yudkowsky" or "MIRI", while "Bostrom" only appears once, in a discussion of the Simulation Argument. I nearly gave up at that point, but then I thought to search for "Hawking", and indeed, there is a discussion of the Hawking/Tegmark/Russell/Wilczek letter; this seems to me to be evidence on how carefully the author looked into the issue before writing the paragraphs dismissing it. In summary: *sigh*.

Edit: The author was aware of MIRI in 2013.

Comment author: [deleted] 16 March 2015 04:06:12PM *  7 points [-]

To the old ask and guess thread: I grew up under the impression it is a gender thing.

My mother would be "guess", she would expect me to notice that the thrash needs taking out, I didn't because I was lazy, and then she did it and acted hurt and told me she is tired of always needing to tell me to do my share of housework, she rather does it herself but she was bitter and hurt.

In the occasional cases she was ill and my father had to give a damn about the housework (in his defense he tended to have 10-11 hour workdays, mother was at home, so it made sense not to), he would do it in the clearly "tell" style of military training sergeants, "get that effing thrash out but on the double you got five effing seconds to finish it", that kind of style, however he was NEVER angry or hurt about this, he actually looked amused and having fun during that verbal rudeness, I think he always thought if you order people do things and they do them on the bounce, then things are right even if you need to give that order every day: you just tell it ruder and ruder until they learn, easy enough.

While I know ask and guess cultures exist in general, for me it got really tied up with gender. I think as my father always had employees, often stupid ones, and had to play boss all the time, he simply did not mind being a boss even if it meant telling the same things all over. It is repetitive but maybe it always gives a bit of power trip feeling. And it matched nicely with the generally patriarchial social model. I think my mother felt she does not really have the power to enforce her wishes, and this is why she wanted us to take them to the heart and remember what she asked and not have to tell it over and over because really ignoring her wishes, to her, felt like a real possibility. I think she hated repeating them because she felt it could one day come to that that she tells it again and then my or dad refuse it outright and then she has no more recourses. She thought, and correctly, that if we really loved her we would remember what she asks. Having to guilt-tripped into pulling my share was probably a correctly identified lack of care on my side and maybe she was correct that I may not have been very far from outright refusal.

Comment author: Lumifer 16 March 2015 04:29:18PM *  7 points [-]

and then she did it and acted hurt and told me she is tired of always needing to tell me

That's pretty classical passive-aggressive behaviour. I don't think it has much to do with guess-vs-ask cultures.

But I agree that there is probably some gender correlation.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 16 March 2015 05:17:06PM 5 points [-]

It seems plausible that Hint cultures lead to passive aggression-- if you can't be just plain aggressive, what have you got left?

Comment author: Lumifer 16 March 2015 05:25:16PM 8 points [-]

I think power imbalance leads to passive aggression much more than the Hint or Ask character of the culture.

Hint and Ask are basically preferred communication protocols and most Hint people I know will adjust if the hints are clearly not working. But there is a big difference between

  • Glance at garbage. Glance at garbage. Glance at garbage. Dear, can you please take out the garbage?

and

  • Glance at garbage. Glance at garbage. Glance at garbage. You never pay any attention to me and you screwed up my whole life, you ungrateful bastard!
Comment author: [deleted] 17 March 2015 08:52:32AM 4 points [-]

Yes, but passive-aggression is what guess-people do when upset, and active-aggression is what ask-people do when upset.

Comment author: Lumifer 17 March 2015 02:39:50PM 1 point [-]

I don't know if I am willing to accept it as a such tight relation. For one thing, being passive-aggressive is usually not one particular action, an outburst when upset, it's more like a an attitude, a continuous inclination/slant/flavour.

I think that passive vs. active aggression depends much more on power, status, and specific circumstances rather than on usually preferred communication styles.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 16 March 2015 05:24:20PM 4 points [-]

The idea that there's a gender correlation, whether for cultural or biological reasons certainly is something I've seen a fair bit when this comes up as a subject. See for example here. This one where cultural distinctions are going to be very difficult since some cultures (e.g. China) are so heavily on one side. It would I think be very interesting to see if the obvious gender trend in the West still is true in those extreme examples- it would be pretty strong evidence of a biological basis.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 16 March 2015 08:06:51PM 2 points [-]

In a way the gender aspect could be seen as a micro culture thing as women operating in their own social circles build up these sub-protocols (influenced due to power structures of ourse).

Comment author: MathiasZaman 17 March 2015 11:15:31AM 1 point [-]

I think it would be wrong to generalize from that example, so I'd like to report the opposite. My mother would also ask me to do specific, clearly defined task when she wanted them done and ask again when I forgot. My dad, on the other hand, would just get angry when things weren't done according to his requirements without making those requirements clear.

Comment author: DataPacRat 20 March 2015 06:54:02AM 3 points [-]

Wrist computer: To Buy or Not To Buy

I'm considering whether or not to buy an Android phone in a wristwatch form-factor, and am hesitating on whether it's the best use of my money. Would anyone here care to offer their opinion?

One of my goals: Go camping and enjoy it. One of my constraints: A limited budget. I suspect that taking a watch-phone, such as an Omate Truesmart or one of its clones ( eg, http://www.dx.com/p/imacwear-m7-waterproof-android-4-2-dual-core-3g-smart-watch-phone-w-1-54-5-0mp-black-373360 ), and filling a 32 gigabyte SD card with offline maps, Wikipedia, and related materials would improve my camping experience. However, I could also purchase an iPhone-like Android phone of comparable stats for half the price, allowing me to also purchase, say, a Kelly kettle, which would also improve my camping experience. (I already have various other digital devices, but none with enough room for the maps etc. I already have solar panels to hang from my backpack and external batteries, to keep any such devices charged while in the field.)

I have some leeway in timing, to get whatever items I decide on before camping season starts, and I find myself having spent several days being indecisive about what options, if any, to pick. My thoughts keep bouncing between something like "Wrist-computers are cool and I want one" and "I've made poor electronics purchasing decisions in the past and regretted them".

How do you think I should redirect my thought processes?

Comment author: Lumifer 20 March 2015 03:24:36PM 8 points [-]

Would anyone here care to offer their opinion?

Sure :-D Smartwatches are computers miniaturized to the point of uselessness because of the tiny screen and UI issues. Specifically for camping or backpacking you'd be much better off with a bigger-screen device like a regular smartphone. In fact, if you're serious about backpacking I would recommend a dedicated GPS unit.

Comment author: DataPacRat 20 March 2015 07:19:04PM 0 points [-]

UI issues

I've started looking into speech-to-text and text-to-speech alternatives to the tiny screen.

a dedicated GPS unit.

I've tried one of those, every N years. There's always been some issue - only providing coordinates instead of a map, or power issues, or the like - which has ended up with me leaving it out of my kit. I'm vaguely hoping that the continuing convergence of all electronic devices into "phones" means that the various solutions to those issues will also have been collected.

Comment author: Lumifer 20 March 2015 08:00:02PM 4 points [-]

I've started looking into speech-to-text and text-to-speech alternatives to the tiny screen.

That sounds like a rationalization. And it's entirely unhelpful when you're trying to figure out maps.

Comment author: DataPacRat 20 March 2015 08:25:50PM 0 points [-]

Granted. :)

Comment author: Lumifer 20 March 2015 08:16:09PM 2 points [-]

the continuing convergence of all electronic devices into "phones"

For backpacking I still prefer a dedicated GPS unit because (a) it's waterproof plus I expect it to survive shock better than a smartphone; (b) it's power-thrifty and I can leave it on for the whole day without worrying about running down the battery; (c) it can run off AA batteries which are ubiquitous; (d) if you really need GPS, you need to carry two GPS-capable devices.

Comment author: DataPacRat 20 March 2015 08:26:54PM 0 points [-]

on for the whole day

Maybe it's been longer than I thought since I went GPS-hunting... What brand and/or model accomplishes this witchcraft?

Comment author: Lumifer 20 March 2015 08:37:54PM 1 point [-]

My GPS is an old Garmin 76CSx.

Comment author: MrMind 20 March 2015 08:05:04AM 5 points [-]

For a long time I've wanted to want a smartwatch so badly I was forced to buy it, but the actual advantages of owning one never amounted to the desired threshold. In the end, and quite sadly, I've decided that there will probably never be enough reasons.

I think it's happening the same to you: you want to want to buy a wrist-phone, but are rational enough to know that there's no reason to do such a thing. I suggest you to meditate on the fact that you probably already know what's the right course of action, it just sucks to follow.

Comment author: DataPacRat 20 March 2015 11:55:01AM 1 point [-]

In a curious twist to this process, I just dreamed that I checked this thread for a response to this comment, and found one, of which I explicitly remember only the words, "You're playing with fire here" and "You're taking your life into your hands", and implicitly remember something about the authour reminding me that I'm a cryonicist.

Going camping does happen to increase the odds that I'll have an accident where my brain ends up warm and dead. Having a communications device that's quite likely to remain intact and ready to use if I fall down a cliff and break my legs modestly reduces the odds of that particular negative scenario. In fact, assuming that I'm not going to quit going camping, and that I already have my chosen first-aid equipment, there are few expenditures I can make which are as likely to increase my QALYs.

So: Does /that/ sound like actually useful reasoning, or mere rationalization?

Comment author: Lumifer 20 March 2015 03:26:22PM 4 points [-]

Going camping does happen to increase the odds that I'll have an accident where my brain ends up warm and dead.

While that's true you might want to consider what other activities also happen to increase the same odds and whether you want to spend your life avoiding all of them.

Comment author: DataPacRat 20 March 2015 07:25:22PM 1 point [-]

other activities

My lifestyle is mostly urban; whatever accidents befall me, I'm nearly always well within range of ambulances and hospitals with personnel able to call up my medical proxy. Camping is the exception where it would likely take a few hours just for emergency personnel to reach me.

Comment author: Lumifer 20 March 2015 08:07:20PM *  1 point [-]

I'm nearly always well within range of ambulances and hospitals with personnel able to call up my medical proxy.

Be realistic. If you're hit by bus on a city street, how long do you think your brain will spend being warm and dead before the information reaches someone who could call in the cryo team? And that even providing your brain stays intact.

Comment author: DataPacRat 20 March 2015 08:36:21PM 1 point [-]

how long do you think

My immediate family all know my wishes, I have a medic-alert type necklace with cryo contact info, there's similar info in my wallet, and so on. Basically, as soon as medical professionals learn who my corpse was, which should be close to as soon as they arrive, they'll know to contact someone who knows to tell them to put ice around my head (as a first stage in the cooling process).

By contrast, if I'm camping, then even if I stay within range of cell towers, and have arranged to call someone twice a day, then even just getting the info out that I might be in trouble (and possibly dead) will take hours-to-days, let alone finding me. (For not-quite-as-lethal accidents, I've got everything from a mirror that can be used as a signal mirror to a pen-style flare launcher to help point possible rescuers in my direction.)

Comment author: knb 20 March 2015 06:00:22PM 3 points [-]

Sounds like a rationalization to me.

I think you would be better off buying a ruggedized cell phone or radio if that is your true purpose. I suspect a watch is quite likely to get smashed in a serious fall like that.

Comment author: DataPacRat 20 March 2015 07:22:35PM *  0 points [-]

Sounds like a rationalization to me.

Fair enough.

quite likely to get smashed

Hm... brainstorming a bit, I'm considering looking up one of the cheaper watch-phones, removing the wrist-band, getting a SIM card for a phone service that only needs to be paid for annually, and keeping the miniaturized backup cellphone somewhere about my person. But that's a completely separate use-case than the device for camping, so I'm not going to even consider it until I finish my annual camping gear refreshing.

Comment author: gjm 21 March 2015 10:27:54AM 4 points [-]

Allow me to join the chorus of commenters who suspect that you've been persuaded by advertising, peer pressure, etc. that you have to have the latest cool gadget, and that you'd be better off if you could overcome that urge. It's a useful habit to break if you have a longer-term preference for having more money :-).

Comment author: VincentYu 21 March 2015 02:17:06PM 2 points [-]

Not directly answering your conundrum on wrist computers, but—I go trail running frequently (in Hong Kong), so I've thought a bit about wearable devices and safety. Here are some of my solutions and thoughts:

  • I use a forearm armband (example) to hold my phone in a position that allows me to use and see the touchscreen while running. I find this incredibly useful for checking a GPS map on the run while keeping both hands free for falls. I worry that the current generation of watches are nowhere near as capable as my phone.

  • I rely a lot on Strava's online route creation tool and phone app for navigation.

  • Digital personal locator beacons on the 406 MHz channel (example) are the current gold standard for distress signals.

  • Sharing your location through your phone (e.g., on Google+) can give some peace of mind to your family and friends.

  • An inactivity detector based on a phone's accelerometer might be a useful dead man switch for sending a distress SMS/email in the event of an accident that renders you incompetent. I haven't gotten around to setting this up on my phone, but here's an (untested) example of an app that might work.

  • In case of emergency, it might be useful to have a GPS app on your phone that can display your grid reference so that you can tell rescuers where to find you.

Comment author: DataPacRat 21 March 2015 03:59:36PM 1 point [-]

Digital personal locator beacons on the 406 MHz channel (example) are the current gold standard for distress signals.

Indeed so - but as far as I've been able to dig up so far, they require a bit more gold than I can afford.

Such beacons are required to be (re)programmed with a serial number appropriate for the country they're to be used in, which can only be done at an authorized dealer, which makes online purchases from other countries almost pointless. As near as I can tell, the nearest place I can get such a beacon is at mec.ca , where the least expensive example I can find is $265, above my budget for camping electronics.

I'd be happy to have such a device; I just don't see how I can acquire one with my particular level of fixed income.

Comment author: Larks 18 March 2015 01:54:32AM 3 points [-]

Suppose I wanted to predict the likelihood of and degree of delays and cost over-runs associated with a nuclear plant currently under construction. How would people recommend I do so?

Comment author: Tripitaka 18 March 2015 02:21:59AM 2 points [-]

Study existing literature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_Flyvbjerg this guy got a lot of good press in germany, apparently he has written extensively on big infrastructure projects and cost overruns. I find Megaprojects and Risk: An Anatomy of Ambition

Comment author: satt 22 March 2015 06:51:34PM 0 points [-]

Reference class forecasting: get a list of previously constructed nuclear power plants, look up how much they were delayed and over budget, then use the empirical probability distribution of delays and cost over-runs. (Bent Flyvbjerg, cited by Tripitaka, turns out to be very keen on RCF.)

Comment author: palladias 17 March 2015 03:25:32PM 3 points [-]

I'm running an Ideological Turing Test about religion, and I need some people to try answering the questions. I've giving a talk at UPenn this week on how to have better fights about religion, and the audience is going to try to sort out honest/faked Christian and atheist answers and see where both sides have trouble understanding the other.

In April, I'll share all the entries on my blog, so you can play along at home and see whether you can distinguish the impostors from the true (non-)believers.

Comment author: Jiro 17 March 2015 06:48:36PM 3 points [-]

How do you account for ideological Turing tests failing because of shibboleths? It's one thing to be unable to express or recognize the same ideas as a Christian, it's another to be unable to express or recognize in-group terminology.

Comment author: palladias 19 March 2015 03:39:49PM 1 point [-]

I try to structure questions so that they'll be less vulnerable to shibboleth exploits (plus, some shammers do do a bit of research to be able to drop in jargon!).

Comment author: Ander 18 March 2015 12:16:56AM 2 points [-]

One thing I noted when doing this. Most of my true answers were more specific than my made up answers, which might give them away. I look forward to reading the results!

Comment author: polymathwannabe 18 March 2015 03:20:40AM 1 point [-]

It's curious; I felt the opposite.

Comment author: Ander 17 March 2015 11:34:33PM *  1 point [-]

These questions are quite difficult and will require effort. I'll try to submit an entry.

Edit: Completed. :)

Comment author: Jiro 13 April 2015 03:33:35PM *  0 points [-]

I just took the "root of all sins" test and I tried to distinguish the answers of the Christians and non-Christians entirely based on shibboleths. Disordered love? Christ is a blinding searing light? Humans are finite beings who naturally desire the infinite? Maybe. But the decision was not "would a Christian have those ideas" but "would a Christian phrase the ideas that way".

Of course I can't just go count the shibboleths; it's possible that non-Christians might overcompensate and actual Christians don't talk about Jesus' blinding light much at all, at least not actual Christians of the type who answer such surveys.

But either way, I didn't feel that the most likely way to figure out which answer came from Christians was to look at the content of the answer. So I think that the test has already failed.

On top of this is the question of what type of Christian the non-Christians are trying to imitate. Are they trying to imitate average Christians, average survey-answering Christians, average blogging Christians, average Christians who are knowledgeable about Christianity? Trying to imitate the wrong kind of Christian can mean that knowing too much about Christianity can make your imitation fail.

Comment author: pianoforte611 17 March 2015 03:22:11AM 3 points [-]

Is avoiding death possible is principle? In particular, is there a solution to the problem of the universe no longer being able to support life?

Comment author: RolfAndreassen 17 March 2015 03:50:37AM 7 points [-]

None currently known. But I suggest that this is not a very high-priority problem at the moment; if you solve the more pressing ones, you'll have literally billions of years to figure out an escape path from the universe.

Comment author: MrMind 17 March 2015 08:10:51AM *  2 points [-]

Or billions of years of despair knowing there isn't one...

Comment author: CellBioGuy 18 March 2015 08:30:28PM 8 points [-]

Because obviously the only valid response to knowing death is inevitable is despair during your non-dead time...

Comment author: CellBioGuy 18 March 2015 08:32:55PM 4 points [-]

I'm always confused when people talk about 'avoiding/conquering/ending death', as if death were one thing. It's rather emphatically not. It's even worse than the stereotypical-by-now adge that theres no such thing as a 'cure for cancer' because every type of cancer and indeed every individual tumor is unique and brought about by unique failures and internal evolution.

Comment author: pianoforte611 19 March 2015 08:26:00PM 2 points [-]

I understand that cancer is more than one thing, but I don't see how death is more than one thing. Ceasing to exist; a state such that there is a prior conscious state but no future conscious state. There are many ways to define it, mostly equivalent.

If you mean that biological death is caused by multiple processes then sure, but I mean avoiding all of the causes of death.

Comment author: James_Miller 16 March 2015 05:43:10PM *  3 points [-]

I labeled an exam question as "tricky" because if you applied the solution method we used in class to solve similar looking problems you would get the wrong answer. But it occurred to me that if the question had been identical to one given in class but I still labeled it as "tricky" the "tricky" label would have been accurate because the trick would have been students thinking that the obvious answer wasn't correct when indeed it was. So is it always accurate to label a question as "tricky"?

Comment author: Nornagest 16 March 2015 05:53:42PM *  6 points [-]

That's kind of a Hofstadter-esque question. I think the answer is "no", but the reason why depends on what meta-level you're looking at: if the label refers only to the object-level question, then it's straightforwardly true or false; but if you construe it as applying to the entire context of the question including its labeling, then it's possible to imagine a trick question that's transparent enough that labeling it as such exposes the trick and stops it from being tricky. It can be a self-fulfilling or a self-defeating prophecy.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 17 March 2015 01:58:56PM 2 points [-]

"Tricky" means "the other person is operating at a higher level than I am".

If you answer a question at a lower level than it was posed, you get marked down for failing to level up. If you answer at a higher level than the question was posed at, and the teacher fails to level up, you get marked down for what failing to level up felt like to the teacher -- misinterpreting the question, nitpicking, showing off, whatever. The task in an exam is to figure out what level each question is being asked at, and address it on the same level.

Comment author: Epictetus 17 March 2015 08:19:18AM 2 points [-]

So is it always accurate to label a question as "tricky"?

If every question is tricky, then the label of "tricky" ceases to be meaningful.

But it occurred to me that if the question had been identical to one given in class but I still labeled it as "tricky" the "tricky" label would have been accurate because the trick would have been students thinking that the obvious answer wasn't correct when indeed it was.

I believe the word you're looking for is "cruel".

Comment author: JoshuaZ 16 March 2015 07:04:31PM *  2 points [-]

I don't whether it is tricky or not, but it is the sort of thing I think my students would get legitimately annoyed by. While teaching students to be confident of their answers can be important, I'm not sure in this context that would be helped by this.

Comment author: James_Miller 16 March 2015 07:21:30PM *  3 points [-]

would get legitimately annoyed by

Normally you are right, but the class is game theory so I would feel justified playing meta tricky games with my students on exams. Here is a past exam question of mine that got posted.

Comment author: Jiro 16 March 2015 10:02:19PM 6 points [-]

That makes as much sense as having a class about political corruption and requiring that students pass the test by bribing the teacher.

Just because the class is about X doesn't mean that grades in the class should be measured by X.

Comment author: James_Miller 16 March 2015 10:46:55PM 4 points [-]

That makes as much sense as having a class about political corruption and requiring that students pass the test by bribing the teacher.

If I taught a class on political corruption I would totally do that if it wouldn't get me in trouble.

My goal with that question was to confront the students with a real game theory based moral dilemma. Tests are not just for evaluation, but should also be learning exercises.

Comment author: Jiro 17 March 2015 12:27:33AM *  7 points [-]

But there's a difference between "this is how you do X" and "doing X is appropriate in this situation". Deciding that because a class is about bribery, you should get your grade in it by bribery, confuses these two things--you've given the students an opportunity to use the lessons from the class, but it's not a situation where most people think you should have an opportunity to use the lessons from the class. If your class was about some field of statistics related to randomness would you insist that your students roll dice to determine their exam score? If your class was about male privilege, would you automatically give all female students a grade one rank lower?

Tests are not just for evaluation, but should also be learning exercises.

While tests can have purposes, such as learning, that are orthogonal to evaluation, that's different from giving the test an additional purpose that is counterproductive to evaluation.

Also, I'd hate to be the student who had to explain to a prospective employer that the employer should add a percentage point to his GPA when considering him for employment, on the grounds that he scored poorly in your class for reasons unrelated to evaluation.

Comment author: ike 16 March 2015 08:22:35PM 1 point [-]

That one is evil.

Assuming the question was known in advance, the obvious solution is for the people who care more about their grades to pay those who care less to circle A while circling B themselves. If they trust each other, they might even be able to do this after-the-fact.

The universalizing answer would be to choose A 51% of the time.

What was the ratio of As?

Comment author: ilzolende 17 March 2015 01:22:53AM 1 point [-]

Does James Miller let his students take d% dice to his tests?

Comment author: James_Miller 19 March 2015 01:37:04AM 2 points [-]

No, but if a student asked I would be tempted to give her extra credit.

Comment author: James_Miller 16 March 2015 09:39:01PM 1 point [-]

What was the ratio of As?

It was several years ago and I don't remember.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 March 2015 03:24:28PM *  6 points [-]

I don't understand why I do find certain kinds of goodness, kindness, compassion annoying. Of all the publications, The Guardians seems to rank highest in pissing me off with kindness. Consider this:

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/jun/12/anti-homeless-spikes-latest-defensive-urban-architecture

Ocean Howell, a former skateboarder and assistant professor of architectural history at the University of Oregon, who studies such anti-skating design, says it reveals wider processes of power. “Architectural deterrents to skateboarding and sleeping are interesting because – when noticed – they draw attention to the way that managers of spaces are always designing for specific subjects of the population, consciously or otherwise,” he says. “When we talk about the ‘public’, we’re never actually talking about ‘everyone’.”

Does anyone have any idea why may I find it annoying? Putting it differently, why do I experience something similar as Scott i.e. while I don't have many problems with most contemporary left-leaning ideas, I seem to have a problem with left-leaning people?

For example, I don't find anything inherently bad about starting a discussion about making design more skateboarder-friendly, or less directly skateboarder-hostile, I think skateboarders providing free entertainment to bystanders is kind of a win-win.

And I still feel like slapping Mr. Howell around with a large trout. But why?

Clearly it must be something about the style? Pretentious? Condescending?

Problem is, my emotions prevent me from analysing this clearly. But as far as I see it, the issue with the style is roughly this algorithm

  1. assume very high level of compassion and altruism (public spaces are literally designed for everyone)
  2. look sad or scandalized when you pretend to be surprised it is not so

Well, to use this example, we always knew it is not so. Clean, bourgeois middle-class folks never wanted e.g. homeless, amputee beggars, or other undesirables near where they live. I am not even ashamed about this, I don't find it incompatible to wish that they should get treated well, but somewhere I cannot see them much. It is not my eyesight is what they need most but more like professional care. I just wasn't aware skateboarders are also included in the category of undesirables. Anyway, the way I can best parse my emotions is that I find Mr. Howell condesdencing or pretentious because he is pretending to be surprised we are not saints. And this seems to be general tone of The Guardian, that may be why it annoys me.

Any better takers?

People of more or less explicit left-wing views: do you see your goals would better supported by, how to put, it less drama, or less pretense, or less antagonizing or trying to guilt-trip others, so I don't know, with a different tone than that of The Guardian or Salon.com? I cannot really express this better, but what I have in mind is more of a e.g. "please discuss why the homeless annoy you so much that you want to install spikes" tone, and less of a "fuck you for being a cruel monster who installs anti-homeless spikes" tone, do you find that counter-productive?

OTOH it is also possible that I find it annoying because it it actually pierces my conscience. But I actually don't think so. I never really considered perfect 200% compassion a super ace that trumps all other cards. It is one of the aces, sure, but there are other aces and also kings and whatnot in the stack. Maybe, it is annoying because it reminds me of a social expectation, certain social taboos, like, never feel grossed out by e.g. the homeless, because they suffer and the only proper reaction to suffering is compassion, those kinds of taboos.

Comment author: seer 23 March 2015 01:26:17AM 7 points [-]

The problem is he starts with false premises that it is impermissible (or at least impolite) to question in public, such as that homeless people are perfectly normal people who are down on their luck. (Most homeless, especially long time homeless have a mental illness.) And then he proceeds to reason from them and expects people to agree.

Comment author: Lumifer 20 March 2015 03:36:48PM *  4 points [-]

Any better takers?

I think I dislike this sort of articles because they assume I'm a stupid mark easily to manipulate by crude emotional-blackmail methods. AND the author is someone who thinks that manipulating other people this way is an excellent idea.

Comment author: Capla 21 March 2015 11:38:01PM 2 points [-]

upvote for noticing a (possibly) uncharitable reaction in yourself and taking steps to do better.

Comment author: is4junk 20 March 2015 08:59:29PM *  2 points [-]

Why even read left wing articles if they upset you?

My take is that if the public space was skateboarder and homeless friendly, the author could easily write a similar article on how that scares [insert other victim group] away from the public space.

As for why it is written that way, Kling's book The Three Languages of Politics is a good explanation. The left likes to think in oppressed verses oppressor terms.

Thanks for posting this article. There is a park being planned near me and there are certain architectural features I now want it to consider ...

Comment author: ChristianKl 21 March 2015 12:40:01AM 1 point [-]

My take is that if the public space was skateboarder and homeless friendly, the author could easily write a similar article on how that scares [insert other victim group] away from the public space.

There a difference between not designing for being homeless friendly and designing spikes to prevent homeless people from sleeping in the area.

Comment author: ChristianKl 21 March 2015 12:38:32AM 1 point [-]

Anyway, the way I can best parse my emotions is that I find Mr. Howell condesdencing or pretentious because he is pretending to be surprised we are not saints.

"We" is a bad word. "We" don't design public spaces. Certain architects do. Those architects do engage in certain rhetoric. They also do promise certain things to governments who hire them to build public spaces.

Comment author: adamzerner 20 March 2015 05:38:58PM *  4 points [-]

Do dating conventions fall victim to Positive Bias?

It seems that people are always looking for positive evidence, and that looking for negative evidence (I suspect my vocabulary might be incorrect?) is socially unacceptable. Ie. "Let's see if we could find something in common." seems typical and acceptable, while "Let's see if each of us posses any characteristics that would make us incompatible" seems socially unacceptable.

Note: I have zero experience with dating and romance so these are just my impressions, although I suspect that they're true.

Comment author: Epictetus 20 March 2015 07:36:17PM 4 points [-]

"Let's see if each of us posses any characteristics that would make us incompatible" seems socially unacceptable.

It's considered rude to say that out loud during a date. However, it is considered good practice to be alert for such characteristics.

Comment author: Lumifer 20 March 2015 08:09:23PM 2 points [-]

It's considered rude to say that out loud during a date.

In these very words, probably, but it's perfectly socially acceptable for e.g. a vegan to declare outright that s/he is not interested in carnivores...

Comment author: adamzerner 20 March 2015 11:54:50PM 0 points [-]

Do you think that it's rude? It seems sensible to me.

It seems that people interpret such actions as hostile. And people who say things like that probably are hostile. However, I don't think the likelihood of the person being hostile is high enough such that you should conclude that they actually are. I think that the likelihood is low enough such that the courteous thing to do is investigate further as why they're saying that.

And if they're well intentioned - ie. they want both parties to find someone that they're compatible and happy with, and are just trying to do a good job of that - then I think the mature thing to do is to respect it.

Comment author: ChristianKl 21 March 2015 12:27:21AM 2 points [-]

The point of a dating conversation isn't primarily to exchange information. It's to create good feelings and see whether one can create a feeling of connection.

Comment author: G0W51 21 March 2015 09:38:54PM *  2 points [-]

Perhaps beliefs are exaggerated partially due to the chance of those who disagree with the belief expressing their disagreement being less than the chance of those who agree with it expressing their agreement with it.

Justification: It seems the main incentive for expressing one’s agreement or disagreement (and the reasons for it) is to make the person more likely to hold your belief and thus more likely to hold a more accurate belief. If you agree with the person, expressing your agreement has little cost, as you probably won’t get into a lengthy argument, but it still has the benefit of reinforcing their belief. However, if you disagree, you are much more likely to get into a lengthy argument and may make them hostile to you, which can be much more costly.

Thus, I think it’s a good idea to account for this by actively seeking out arguments for opposing beliefs next time it seems the opposition has few good arguments. What do you all think?

Comment author: Aquifax 20 March 2015 08:04:06PM 2 points [-]

It appears to me that the differences System 1 and System 2 reasoning be used as leverage to change one's mind.

For example, I am rather risk-averse and sometimes find myself unwilling to take a relatively minor risk (even if I think that doing that would be in line with my values). If that happens, I point out to myself that I already take comparable risks which my System 1 doesn't perceive as risks because I'm acclimated to these - such as navigating road traffic. That seems to confirm to System 1 the idea of "taking a minor risk for a good reason is no big deal".

Comment author: Meni_Rosenfeld 18 March 2015 06:31:36PM *  2 points [-]

I've written a post on my blog covering some aspects of AGI and FAI.

It probably has nothing new for most people here, but could still be interesting.

I'll be happy for feedback - in particular, I can't remember if my analogy with flight is something I came up with or heard here long ago. Will be happy to hear if it's novel, and if it's any good.

How many hardware engineers does it take to develop an artificial general intelligence?

Comment author: ausgezeichnet 17 March 2015 04:37:55PM *  2 points [-]

I occasionally see people move their fingers on a flat surface while thinking, as if they were writing equations with their fingers. Does anyone do this, and can anyone explain why people do this? I asked one person who does it, and he said it helps him think about problems (presumably math problems) without actually writing anything down. Can this be learned? Is it a useful technique? Or is it just an innate idiosyncrasy?

Comment author: emr 18 March 2015 06:08:38PM 2 points [-]

Seems to be a working memory aid for me.

If I have to manipulate equations mentally, I'll (sort of) explain the equation sub-vocally and assign chunks of it to different fingers/regions of space, and then move my fingers around or reassign to regions, as if I'm "dragging and dropping" (e.g. multiply by a denominator means dragging a finger pointing at the denominator over and up). Even if I'm working on paper, this helps me see one or two steps further ahead than I could do so using internal mental imagery alone. I don't remember explicitly learning this.

Comment author: MathiasZaman 18 March 2015 09:04:25AM 2 points [-]

I move my fingers (and hands or a prop wand if I'm carrying one) to "write" stuff in the air when I'm doing serious thinking. The way that helps me is that I can keep more thoughts in my head. This doesn't (just) apply to math problems (since I hardly know any math and can't do much calculations in my head). My current hypothesis for why this works is that it couples certain actions to certain ideas and repeating the action makes it easier to recall the idea. If I'm right about that it might be learnable and useful, to a similar extent as mind palaces. By coincidence, I've been thinking about trying to formalize this technique in some way since Saturday.

Comment author: GuySrinivasan 18 March 2015 07:16:06PM 1 point [-]

I have the belief that I solve math, design, and logic problems more rapidly when standing/pacing in front of a whiteboard with a marker in my hand, far out of proportion to any marks I actually make (often no marks), possibly because the physical motions put me in the state of mind I developed during university.

(I don't know if it actually helps; I have not tested it)

Comment author: [deleted] 18 March 2015 02:17:26PM 4 points [-]

From 2008: "Readers born to atheist parents have missed out on a fundamental life trial"

Not really, in my experience. First of all there are plenty of other silly things to believe in, such my parents tended to believe in feel-good liberal adages like "violence never solves anything".

But actually the experience made me learn from religious people quite a lot. For this reason: like for most modern secular liberal Europeans, for my parents the kind of history we live in began not so long ago. A few centuries ago. Or maybe 1945. Everything before is The Dark Ages. The Dark Ages are the period where people were both stupid and evil and we can learn nothing from them. Everybody before Galilei was an idiot. Modern ideas, from democracy to human rights are not simply right but obviously so.

Well, imagine my surprise when I made some Catholic friends with a slight conservative bent, who, through their religion, inherited quite older historical ideas, which came accross as new, interesting and thoughtful to me. Roughly the same kinds of ideas you can get from Chesterton. Or Tolkien.

Having said that, religion is not necessary for this, any atheist with a keen interest in history can have ideas like that. For example, my Catholic friends proposed it may not be entirely true that there cannot be anything wrong, ever, with gay people, it can actually be something like narcissism, as it is based on falling in love with people who are a reflection of the self. I still don't know if it is true but at least it explains a bit why some of the gay folks I knew from raves wanted all the attention all the time. Later on, I learned that this idea actually has nothing to do with Catholic tradition: it was invented by Freud. Who is generally not seen a particularly conservative fellow although this idea of his was clearly un-PC by now.

So, ultimately, it is not about religion then, it just seems my liberal-secular parents were too much in the narrow "canon" and my religious friends (who had some conservative bent) were simply aware of the existence of ideas outside it.

Comment author: Lumifer 18 March 2015 02:44:06PM 2 points [-]

Have you discovered the neoreactionaries yet? :-)

Comment author: [deleted] 18 March 2015 03:41:32PM *  1 point [-]

Yes, Moldbug and Xenosystems. Love/Hate. The problem is they are too politics focused which is typically about using power to change other people's lives. Frankly I like it more if people experiment with their own lives first.

This is what I don't understand - is there even a name for that? A non-political conservative/reactionary who experiments with old ideas on himself and not forcing others to do so, is there such a thing (NOT the SCA).

If there was such a thing I would actually try a demo version of it, for example, I love the movie The Last Samurai for example, but strictly on a voluntary basis and I figure that means non-political.

I mean, I guess, if I think deeper into it, the issue is not even whether voluntary or not but the Talebian "skin in the game". The honesty of every proposal is proportional with how much it affects oneself and how much it others. And that is why I hate politics. Too few personal skin in the game and way too much other people's skin.

Comment author: seer 23 March 2015 01:08:15AM *  4 points [-]

The problem is they are too politics focused which is typically about using power to change other people's lives.

No, it's about trying to stop progressives from using power to change other people's lives.

This is what I don't understand - is there even a name for that? A non-political conservative/reactionary who experiments with old ideas on himself and not forcing others to do so, is there such a thing

I think most reactionaries would settle for forcing the progressives to experiment with their new ideas on themselves before forcing them on everyone else.

As for experimenting with old ideas. What do you mean? If the 1000+ years of data isn't enough for you, a couple of neoreactionaries' self-experimentation won't be either.

Comment author: [deleted] 19 March 2015 07:10:48AM 1 point [-]

Libertarians?

Comment author: Lumifer 18 March 2015 03:50:03PM 1 point [-]

A non-political conservative/reactionary who experiments with old ideas on himself and not forcing others to do so, is there such a thing

Sure, these people are usually known as eccentrics, cranks, and weirdos X-/

If there was such a thing I would actually try a demo version of it

Since you're experimenting on yourself, what's stopping you and why do you want only a demo version?

Too few personal skin in the game

That depends on where do you live and what kind of politics you are talking about.

Comment author: [deleted] 16 March 2015 08:46:50AM *  4 points [-]

DAE know The Haze? The Haze is the brain fog whenever I have a subject I entertain comfortable lies about and the truth would be too painful. I.e. something negative about myself etc. whenever I approach the subject my brain decides to deal with the cognitive dissonance to avoid painful truth by reducing the IQ, but instead of becoming wooden and thick like normal stupidity, it becomes foggy. This fogginess is not actually felt or known at that time, but when I later on face the painful truth, it feels like a fog, a haze lifting. It feels a lot like as if formerly I was thinking about a subject in a drunken state, like when drunk people philosophize.

Since it does not feel like that at that moment, any method for discovering these?

Comment author: Joseph_P 16 March 2015 03:09:09PM *  2 points [-]

Could you give a specific example of this foggy thinking? In which ways is it different from an Ugh field ?

Comment author: [deleted] 16 March 2015 03:36:26PM 2 points [-]

I think ugh fields are about something fairly small and simple, it is different.

When I as 15, I was weak in every sense, nerves (anxiety), borderline mentally ill, scrawny body etc. As I desperately did not want to admit it, because it sucks, and I wanted to convince myself I am strong, I externalized the self-hate and started to hate on other people's weakness (not actual individuals, but as a principle), saying things like the weak don't deserve to live and should go extinct to make room for the strong etc. in order to convince myself I am strong. But it didn't really work. It did not really work for Nietzsche either, who inspired me to do this... and especially when I was confronted by people who took offense when I exhorted how altruism is slave morality, and those people were strong and succesful in every possible way, yet they were altruists, basically they were paladins, I needed to exert more and more convoluted mental gymnastics to convince myself they are actually weak and I am somehow actually strong. Back then it felt like being a non-understood genius, a genius who is not understood because other people are stupid. But much later when I realized the folly, it felt like being in a mental fog, mental haze back then.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 16 March 2015 08:11:39PM 1 point [-]

Sounds like unsuccessful rationalization or compartmentalization. Unsuccessful probably because the fog wasn't 'able' to lock you into a stable state. You mention lots of contact to other people so I guess that prevented it.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 16 March 2015 05:15:03PM 1 point [-]

Hypothesis: what you can think is affected by the state of your nervous system.

Have some neurology on the subject-- I'm not jumping to any conclusions about whether you have a background of trauma, these are just the books I know about.

Complex Trauma: From Surviving to Thriving This one has some material about rage getting turned outward or inward.

In an Unspoken Voice: How the Body Releases Trauma and Restores Goodness

Comment author: satt 22 March 2015 07:02:56PM *  0 points [-]

[On second thought, deleted — the example I pulled up is arguably more "wooden and thick like normal stupidity" than "foggy".]

Comment author: Ishaan 18 March 2015 01:44:07AM 2 points [-]

What is the name of the logical fallacy where you rhetorically invalidate an argument by providing an unflattering explanation of why someone might holds that viewpoint, rather than addressing the claim itself? I seem to remember there being a word for that sort of thing.

Comment author: bramflakes 18 March 2015 01:46:31AM 8 points [-]
Comment author: fubarobfusco 18 March 2015 07:48:40PM 1 point [-]

A related idea is psychologizing — analyzing someone's belief as a psychological phenomenon rather than as a factual claim.

Comment author: g_pepper 18 March 2015 01:50:39AM 1 point [-]

I believe that is the genetic fallacy.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 18 March 2015 07:42:48PM 1 point [-]

The genetic fallacy has more to do with dismissing a claim because of its origins or history, rather than because of who holds that view today. For instance, arguments from novelty or antiquity are genetic fallacies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

Comment author: g_pepper 21 March 2015 11:51:55PM 1 point [-]

Yes, Bulverism appears to be a specific subcategory of the genetic fallacy, and Bulverism more precisely answers Ishaan's question. Thanks for the clarification.

Comment author: [deleted] 17 March 2015 10:31:46AM 1 point [-]

On AI: are we sure we are not influenced by meta-religious ideas of sci-fi writers who write about sufficiently advanced computers just "waking up into consciousness" i.e. create a hard, almost soul-like, barrier between conscious and not conscious, which carries an assumption that consciousness is a typically human-like feature? It is meta-religious as it is based on the unique specialness of the human soul.

I mean I think the potential variation space of intelligent, conscious agents is very, very large and a randomly selected AI will not be human-like in way we would recognize it to. We will not recognize its consciousness, we will not recognize its intelligence, even its agency, all we would see it does mysterious complicated stuff we don't understand. It may almost look random. It does stuff, maybe it communicates with us although the human-language words it uses will not reflects its thought processes, but it will be profoundly alien.

Comment author: MathiasZaman 17 March 2015 11:33:10AM 4 points [-]

I think the thought-process of AI is expected to be alien by anyone who take AGI seriously. It's just not all that relevant to discussions about the threats and possibilities about it.

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 20 March 2015 06:05:46PM 1 point [-]
Comment author: advancedatheist 16 March 2015 03:03:18PM 1 point [-]

Great. More ridiculous propaganda along the lines of "People revived from the dead are evil/damaged/soulless, etc."

The Returned on A&E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsXDcIDU_AY

Comment author: JoshuaZ 16 March 2015 05:18:27PM 4 points [-]

This is a real problem, but I don't think it is propaganda. Rather these ideas are so ingrained as tropes that writers don't even think about it when they use them.

Comment author: advancedatheist 17 March 2015 12:05:19AM *  1 point [-]

My comment elsewhere got downvoted, but to me the Outlander franchise looks somewhat like a cryonics story, only it sends the protagonist 200 years into her past (from the 1940's to the 1740's), instead of 200 years or so into "the future." She winds up in a different time, she doesn't know anyone, and she has to figure out quickly how the society works so that she can connect with people willing to accept her, as a matter of literal survival. It shows in a fictional way that you can make the necessary adaptations in this kind of situation, so why wouldn't this work in the future-traveling version?

Comment author: bbleeker 17 March 2015 12:15:03PM 2 points [-]

I think that if the future people are still baseline, someone from our time might be able to adapt. If they have changed, though (more rational, more intelligent, better memory, better bodies) then a version 1.0 person might never be able to live independently.

Comment author: RowanE 17 March 2015 09:56:48AM 1 point [-]

I think your last comment seemed to most readers like just a reminder of your idea that the future will be neoreactionary and then the cryopreserved from our time will see, which is something they really don't like for various reasons.

I don't think there's any reason the story wouldn't work, in fact I think most stories that feature cryonics send the protagonist into a future they find horrifying and dystopian, except it's often they heroically overthrow it instead of just adapting and surviving.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 17 March 2015 12:43:39PM 4 points [-]

From memory, there's a story by Alfred Bester about people being punished (I forget for what) by being offered a choice of being thrown into the future or the past. No preparation either way.

It's a short story, and doesn't follow an individual person who's been time displaced. It just ends with a suggestion that some street people were thrown into the past and never figured out how to manage.

Comment author: Lumifer 17 March 2015 03:34:56PM 1 point [-]

I recall a popular discussion topic on the 'net which essentially goes like this: we take you, a XXI century human, and throw you back in time, say into medieval Europe. Are you going to survive? Prosper? What knowledge that you have will be useful to you? Will you be able to recreate useful things like antibiotics? Or will the local peasants just stone you to death for being too weird?

Comment author: [deleted] 18 March 2015 12:34:42PM 1 point [-]

Let's recreate that thread, I have ideas. I would offer body building training for the kings soldiers because isolation exercises were not invented yet, for example. It may not be very useful but they would look impressive. I would sterilize surgical implements with boiling them, implement basic medical hygiene, challenge the miasma model, lots of stuff could be done.

Comment author: Lumifer 18 March 2015 02:40:04PM *  3 points [-]

Heh. Well, first you need to survive. Remember that you barely speak the language which was quite different, you don't know proper social and -- very importantly -- religious behavior, you're not plugged into any social structure, and you don't have any starting resources like money. So you're probably starting as a crazy beggar. Getting to the point where the king's soldiers (or surgeons) will listen to you is a major task.

Also, your body doesn't have much immunity against prevalent infectious diseases and you probably don't have proper hygiene habits for the pre-antibiotics pre-sanitation everyone-has-parasites era.

Comment author: [deleted] 18 March 2015 04:07:48PM *  1 point [-]

Let's say I am allowed contemporary pilgrims / travellers attire and start in an international port where they are used to strangers looking and acting strange. London, 1200. Claim to be a pilgrim from a mysterious Christian kingdom (Prester Johns) in Africa. I don't think they would be worried that I am too white. Try hard to remember high school Latin, latinize English words back. A guy in pilgrims clothing and having some idea of Latin and having interesting stories - or at any rate can read or write - is not a beggar, lower-middle class status like an ex-friar turned scribe, can be a middle-class family's interesting guest. Claim we are a very pious folks and be very, very religious, to earn trust. Start, for example, linking up with the traders in the port who are probably fairly open-minded. Be the guest of a merchant who is interested in info about foreign markets (make it up). See if I can teach things, like accounting they find useful. Claim the Holy Ghost taught Prester John all kinds of marvelous things he then taught us. Don't try scientific explanations, bu also beware not to look like warlock, rather try to present all the knowledge as the good kind of magic, the church kind. Pick easy elements from this list: http://www.topatoco.com/graphics/qw-cheatsheet-print-zoom.jpg and claim it was all taught by the Holy Ghost to Prester John.

Comment author: Lumifer 18 March 2015 04:36:32PM 3 points [-]

Try hard to remember high school Latin, latinize English words back.

English did not develop from Latin. 1200 AD is only a century and a half after the Norman conquest and it means people are speaking early Middle English which you will have problems with.

or at any rate can read or write

Can you, now? Try reading this :-)

is not a beggar

You will become one once you want to eat.

Comment author: MathiasZaman 19 March 2015 08:32:53AM 1 point [-]

Getting used to "medieval" scripts is surprisingly easy. I've learned it before (and have mostly forgotten due to not using it) and the script of a specific age can be decrypted in about 30 minutes (faster with practice). Understanding the words is definitely a bigger barrier than being able to read it.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 18 March 2015 03:25:25PM 1 point [-]

I wonder how hard it would be to get enough food to support bodybuilding in earlier eras. It would definitely be easier for a small group of guards than for a whole army.

Comment author: [deleted] 18 March 2015 03:47:43PM 1 point [-]

My first idea would be lots of milk - but interesting how our go-to examples in Ancient Athens actually considered that barbaric. A cursory search suggests they largely got their proteins from fish. Well, definitely, if I have to get maximal amount of proteins with 1 day of labor with pre-modern tech I take a fishing net. One fisherman with two assitants, could, I figure, support 50 well-built guards.

Comment author: seer 23 March 2015 12:55:16AM 5 points [-]

My first idea would be lots of milk - but interesting how our go-to examples in Ancient Athens actually considered that barbaric.

They were quite possibly lactose intolerant.

Comment author: gwern 23 March 2015 02:07:21AM 3 points [-]

Forget the ancient Athenians 2500 years ago, the modern ones are still lactose intolerant:

The LP allele did not become common in the population until some time after it first emerged: Burger has looked for the mutation in samples of ancient human DNA and has found it only as far back as 6,500 years ago in northern Germany...Lactase persistence had a harder time becoming established in parts of southern Europe, because Neolithic farmers had settled there before the mutation appeared...The remnants of that pattern are still visible today. In southern Europe, lactase persistence is relatively rare — less than 40% in Greece and Turkey. In Britain and Scandinavia, by contrast, more than 90% of adults can digest milk.

Comment author: [deleted] 23 March 2015 08:52:47AM 1 point [-]

Yeah, but still Greek colonists in South Italy held so many cattle that it is where the name Italy came from. It doesn't sound very efficient to do it for the meat only. Better goats them, they are more suited for a hilly terrain anyway.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 25 March 2015 12:08:48AM 0 points [-]

It sounds like we need to know more to see whether cattle made sense there-- maybe it's that cattle are easier to manage than goats.

Comment author: Lumifer 18 March 2015 04:00:56PM 3 points [-]

lots of milk

You probably want cheese.

But in general, I don't think that the king's guards would have problems getting enough protein if they want it. A peasant army, of course, is a different matter.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 18 March 2015 08:15:27PM 2 points [-]

There may be some reason why they aren't already catching those fish. Or they're already catching those fish and you need to find a way for those fish to go to your grow-a-bigger-guard project.

Comment author: CellBioGuy 18 March 2015 08:43:25PM 2 points [-]

When you start looking into ecology it's actually remarkable how many of the agricultural and cultural quirks of old civilizations that have been through some boom and bust cycles actually line up with ways of protecting the productivity of the land and water...

Comment author: RowanE 19 March 2015 11:13:11PM 1 point [-]

Generating artificial gravity on spaceships using centrifuges is a common idea in hard-sci-fi and in speculation about space travel, but no-one seems to consider them for low gravity on e.g. Mars. Am I mistaken in thinking that all you'd need to do is build the centrifuge with an angled floor, so the net force experienced from gravity and (illusory) centrifugal force is straight "down" into it?

I realise there'd be other practical problems with centrifuge-induced artificial gravity on Mars, since it's full of dust and not the best environment, but that doesn't seem to be the right kind of objection to explain it never being brought up where I've seen it.

Comment author: DataPacRat 20 March 2015 08:39:30PM 2 points [-]

One variation: "Gravity trains", going round and round in circles.

Used on my "New Attica" setting, as can be seen at http://datapacrat.deviantart.com/art/The-Grav-y-Train-343866014 .

Comment author: The_Duck 20 March 2015 08:23:03PM 2 points [-]

Am I mistaken in thinking that all you'd need to do is build the centrifuge with an angled floor, so the net force experienced from gravity and (illusory) centrifugal force is straight "down" into it?

Sure, this would work in principle. But I guess it would be fantastically expensive compared to a simple building. The centrifuge would need to be really big and, unlike in 0g, would have to be powered by a big motor and supported against Mars gravity. And Mars gravity isn't that low, so it's unclear why you'd want to pay this expense.

Comment author: GMHowe 20 March 2015 07:28:59PM 0 points [-]

I recall a SF story that took place on a rotating space station orbiting Earth that had several oddities. The station had greater than Earth gravity. Each section was connected to the next by a confusing set of corridors. The protagonist did some experiments draining water out of a large vat and discovered a coriolis effect.

So spoiler alert it turned out that the space station was a colossal fraud. It was actually on a massive centrifuge on Earth.

Comment author: Transfuturist 23 March 2015 07:38:28AM 1 point [-]

If this post doesn't get answered, I'll repost in the next open thread. A test to see if more frequent threads are actually necessary.

I'm trying to make a prior probability mass distribution for the length of a binary string, and then generalize to strings of any quantity of symbols. I'm struggling to find one with the right properties under the log-odds transformation that still obeys the laws of probability. The one I like the most is P(len(x)) = 1/(x+2), as under log-odds it requires log(x)+1 bits of evidence for strings of len(x) to meet even odds. For a length of 15, it uses all 4 bits in 1111, so its cost is 4 bits.

The problem is that 1/(x+2) does not converge, making it an improper prior. Are there some restrictions by which I can use this improper prior, or to find a proper prior with similarly desirable qualities?

Comment author: Kindly 25 March 2015 02:05:34PM 4 points [-]

Here is a different answer to your question, hopefully a better one.

It is no coincidence that the prior that requires log(x)+1 bits of evidence for length x does not converge. The reason for this is that you cannot specify using only log(x)+1 bits that a string has length x. Standard methods of specifying string length have various drawbacks, and correspond to different prior distributions in a natural way. (I will assume 32-bit words, and measure length in words, but you can measure length in bits if you like.)

Suppose you have a length-prefixed string. Then you pay 32 bits to encode the length; but the length can be at most 2^32-1. This corresponds to the uniform distribution that assigns all lengths between 0 and 2^32-1 equal probability. (We derive this distribution by supposing that every bit doing length-encoding duty is random and equally likely.)

Suppose you have a null-terminated string. Then you are paying a hidden linear cost: the 0 word is reserved for the terminator, so you have only 2^32-1 words to use in your message, which means you only convey log(2^32-1) bits of information per 32 bits of message. The natural distribution here is one in which every bit conveys maximal information, so each word has a 1 in 2^32 chance of being the terminator, and so the length of your string is Geometric with parameter 1/2^32.

A common scheme for big-integer types is to have a flag bit in every word that is 1 if another word follows, and 0 otherwise. This is very similar to the null-terminator scheme, and in fact the natural distribution here is also Geometric, but with parameter 1/2 because each flag bit has a probability of 1/2 of being set to 0, if chosen randomly.

If you are encoding truly enormous strings, you could use a length-prefixed string in which the length is a big integer. This is much more efficient and the natural distribution here is also much more heavy-tailed: it is something like a smoothed-out version of 2^(32 Geometric(1/2)). We have come closer to encoding a length of x in log(x) bits, but it's more like C log(x) for some constant C. (The constant is actually 32/31, since for every 31 bits of length, we have 1 bit of "length of length".)

If we iterate this, we can produce even more efficient schemes, but log(x)+1 is unreachable.

(What I have been calling the natural distribution to use for each of these schemes is something like a max-entropy distribution. The way I am defining it is to assume an infinite sequence of random bits, let the scheme read this infinite sequence until it decides that it's reached the end of the string, and take that string's length.)

Comment author: Transfuturist 26 March 2015 04:38:00AM 0 points [-]

This was very informative, thank you.

Comment author: Kindly 23 March 2015 01:50:56PM 0 points [-]

What sort of evidence about x do you expect to update on?

Comment author: Transfuturist 23 March 2015 08:51:55PM *  0 points [-]

The result of some built-in string function length(s), that, depending on the implementation of the string type, either returns the header integer stating the size, or counts the length until the terminator symbol and returns that integer.

Comment author: Kindly 24 March 2015 03:06:51PM 0 points [-]

That doesn't sound like something you'd need to do statistics on. Once you learn something about the string length, you basically just know it.

Improper priors are not useful on their own: the point of using them is that you will get a proper distribution after you update on some evidence. In your case, after you update on some evidence, you'll just have a point distribution, so it doesn't matter what your prior is.

Comment author: Transfuturist 24 March 2015 11:22:07PM *  0 points [-]

Not so. I'm trying to figure out how to find the maximum entropy distribution for simple types, and recursively defined types are a part of that. This does not only apply to strings, it applies to sequences of all sorts, and I'm attempting to allow the possibility of error correction in these techniques. What is the point of doing statistics on coin flips? Once you learn something about the flip result, you basically just know it.

Comment author: Kindly 24 March 2015 11:48:46PM 0 points [-]

Well, in the coin flip case, the thing you care about learning about isn't the value in {Heads, Tails} of a coin flip, but the value in [0,1] of the underlying probability that the coin comes up heads. We can then put an improper prior on that underlying probability, with the idea that after a single coin flip, we update it to a proper prior.

Similarly, you could define here a family of distributions of string lengths, and have a prior (improper or otherwise) about which distribution in the family you're working with. For example, you could assume that the length of a string is distributed as a Geometric(p) variable for some unknown parameter p, and then sampling a single string gives you some evidence about what p might be.

Having an improper prior on the length of a single string, on the other hand, only makes sense if you expect to gain (and update on) partial evidence about the length of that string.

Comment author: Vaniver 22 March 2015 10:16:10PM *  1 point [-]

Are there any English words with the property that if you rot13 them, they flip backwards? For example, "ly" becomes "yl," but "ly" isn't a word.

Comment author: Falacer 22 March 2015 11:24:34PM *  4 points [-]

I wrote a check for this property for all the words in my system's inbuilt vim dictionary and got the following list:

Rubbish Words:

er, Livy, Lyly, na, ob, re, uh

Interesting Words:

an, fans, fobs, gnat, ravine, robe, serf, tang, thug

Comment author: Vaniver 23 March 2015 12:57:05AM 1 point [-]

Thanks!

Comment author: pianoforte611 23 March 2015 03:39:43AM 0 points [-]

I wonder how long it would have taken someone to find one of those without using a script. The human mind is pretty good at word based puzzles, but that's a very short list and a pretty wacky criteria.

Comment author: Falacer 23 March 2015 07:10:29PM 1 point [-]

I thought about it for about 5 minutes before deciding to script it, and got "fobs" and, annoyingly, dismissed "fres" as not a word.

I imagine if I had been more rigorous it wouldn't have taken long to get all the 4 letter ones, since they all have an internal vowel, which was the obvious place to start looking.

Comment author: Vaniver 24 March 2015 08:50:07PM 0 points [-]

It seems to me like you could generate the 26 pairs-- an, bo, cp, etc.-- and then try to make words out of nesting those pairs (fobs is "ob" surrounded by "fs"). But the hard part is checking whether or not something is a word, and nesting is a pretty weird action unrelated to the sound or content of words.

But now I have idea for a Scrabble-esque game...

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 29 March 2015 06:47:45PM 1 point [-]

A simple google search brings up this page, but it doesn't have anything new.

Comment author: EphemeralNight 20 March 2015 06:05:23PM *  1 point [-]

I have a random physics question:

A solid sphere, in ordinary atmosphere, with a magical heating element at one pole and a magical refrigeration element at the other. If the sphere itself is stationary and at room temperature; one pole is super-cooled while the opposite pole is super-heated. (Edit: Assume the axis connecting the poles is horizontal.)

What effect does this have on air-flow around the sphere? Does it move? If so, in which direction?

Comment author: Lumifer 20 March 2015 06:31:16PM *  3 points [-]

Well, of course, the hot pole will heat the air around it and warm air rises. Same thing for the cold pole and cold air sinks. The specifics depend on how the poles are oriented with respect to gravity.

Comment author: ciphergoth 17 March 2015 08:33:48PM 1 point [-]

Is everyone already aware of the existence of erotic fanfiction entitled Conquered by Clippy?

Comment author: Tenoke 18 March 2015 12:18:12AM 1 point [-]
Comment author: ciphergoth 18 March 2015 08:29:34AM 1 point [-]

My searches failed, the words "Conquered by Clippy" don't appear on that page! Thanks.

Comment author: [deleted] 17 March 2015 02:05:51PM *  1 point [-]

I've just read Initation Ceremony. Is this really where Bayesian probability begins? Because I don't claim to understand it, but I worked it out easy enough, just not mentally but with calc.exe, using my usual method of assuming a sample of 100. So there are 100 people, 75 W and 25 M, 75x0.75=56.26 VW and 25x0.5 = 12.5 VM so our ratio is 12.5 to 56.26 so a 22.2% chance (Because only the Sith deal in incomprehensible verbal-math like " two to nine, or a probability of two-elevenths". Percentages are IMHO way more intuitive. I use a sample size of 100 precisely because then I can say of 100 people 56.26 are VW and thus 56.26% of a sample of any size.)

At what point "okay, let's calculate on a sample of 100" breaks down and I really need to learn the Bayes Theorem and its applications? Note: the sample-100 method works well with the other example of diagnostic methods giving false positives for rare illnesses.

It is also possible percentages are not as intuitive to others as to me. To me 22% is visualized as drawing a 10 by 10 square on a grid paper and paint 22 of the constituent squares black, then throwing darts on the square. Assuming darts cannot land outside the cube.

Comment author: Eitan_Zohar 17 March 2015 10:19:29AM *  1 point [-]

Why can't we just make a CPU as large as a dump truck, that can store a thousand petabytes, then run an AI and try to evolve intelligence? I can't imagine that this is beyond the technology of 2015.

(Not that this would be a good idea, I'm just saying that it seems possible.)

Comment author: Nornagest 17 March 2015 07:14:55PM *  7 points [-]

Why can't we just make a CPU as large as a dump truck [...?]

Lots of reasons, some of which Vaniver and ShardPhoenix have already given, but one of the big ones is that CPUs dissipate a truly enormous amount of heat for their size. Your average laptop I7 consumes about thirty watts, essentially all of which goes to heat one way or another, and it's about a centimeter square (the chip you see on the motherboard is bigger, but a lot of that is connections and housing). Let's call that about the size of a penny. That's an overestimate, but as we'll see, it won't matter much.

Now, a quick Google tells me that a dump truck can hold about 20 cubic meters (=20000 liters), and that a liter holds about 2000 closely packed pennies. So if we assume something with around the same packing and thermal efficiency, our dump truck-sized CPU will be putting out about 30 * 2000 * 20000 = 1.2 gigawatts of heat, or a bit more than the combined peak output of the two nuclear reactors powering a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier.

This poses certain design issues.

Comment author: ShardPhoenix 17 March 2015 12:27:10PM *  5 points [-]
  1. There's a limit to how large we can scale computers at any given tech level. What you're talking about is basically what a supercomputer is (they have many CPUs rather than one huge one), but there's still a limit to what's practical with them.

  2. What do you mean by "evolve intelligence"? Run evolutionary algorithms on random bits of code? How do you evaluate the results? Before you can use search algorithms you have to be able to define the target, which is most of the problem in this case, plus search is likely to be impractically slow in something as big as "the space of all programs".

Comment author: sixes_and_sevens 17 March 2015 10:28:31AM 2 points [-]

If you, personally, were given a zillion dollars and told to implement this plan yourself, how would you do it?

Comment author: Eitan_Zohar 17 March 2015 10:33:57AM *  1 point [-]

No idea. What relevance does that have?

Comment author: sixes_and_sevens 17 March 2015 12:01:34PM 6 points [-]

You're assuming that someone, given a zillion dollars, could implement your plan, but if you don't even know where to begin implementing it yourself, what reason do you have to believe someone else would?

Put another way, if "I can't imagine we can't [X] given the technology of 2015" works when X is "evolve artificial intelligence", why wouldn't it work for any other X you care to imagine?

Comment author: Unknowns 17 March 2015 10:47:59AM 1 point [-]

I think the relevance is that no presently living human being knows how to program an AI, whether with an evolutionary algorithm or in any other way, no matter how powerful the hardware they may have.

The AI problem is a software problem, and no one has yet solved it.

Comment author: Capla 21 March 2015 11:20:07PM 0 points [-]

No stupid questions thread?

What make a person sexual submissive, sexually dominant, or a switch? Do people ever change d/s orientation?

Comment author: Adele_L 22 March 2015 04:50:51PM *  0 points [-]

Based on some experiences that transgender people I know have had, it seems like a change in sex hormones can change their d/s orientation. Also, age seems to push people more towards sexual dominance.

Comment author: tut 22 March 2015 09:02:00AM 0 points [-]

Unknown. It is probably not purely genetic, because the heredity is less than for a lot of personality stuff. People do change, but trying to change or push somebody to change tends to fail.