Lumifer comments on Request for Steelman: Non-correspondence concepts of truth - Less Wrong

13 Post author: PeerGynt 24 March 2015 03:11AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 24 March 2015 06:39:31PM 1 point [-]

Please forgive my continuation of the Socratic method, but what in what ways can a model be useless that differ from it not corresponding to reality?

Comment author: Lumifer 24 March 2015 06:44:18PM 1 point [-]

Recall an old joke:

A man flying in a hot air balloon realizes he is lost. He reduces his altitude and spots a man in a field down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts, "Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?" The man below says, "Yes, you're in a hot air balloon, about 30 feet above this field." "You must be an mathematician," says the balloonist. "I am. How did you know?" "Everything you told me is technically correct, but it's of no use to anyone."

Comment author: gjm 24 March 2015 10:20:05PM 3 points [-]

"Very clever! And you must be a manager," says the guy in the field. "Amazing! How did you work it out?" asks the balloonist. "Well, there you are in your elevated position generating hot air, you have no idea where you are or what you're doing, but somehow you've decided it's my problem."

Comment author: Lumifer 25 March 2015 02:31:11PM 0 points [-]

Yep. Moral of the story: never let the twain meet :-)

Comment author: GMHowe 25 March 2015 09:13:38PM 1 point [-]

It's a funny joke but beside the point. Knowing that he is in a balloon about 30 feet above a field is actually very useful. It's just useless to tell him what he clearly already knows.

Comment author: [deleted] 24 March 2015 11:09:46PM 0 points [-]

Sorry I'm dense. What does this have to do with anything? It is true that the balloonist is in a hot air balloon 30 feet above a field. These are correct facts. Are you arguing for a concept of truth which would not qualify "Yes, you're in a hot air balloon, about 30 feet above this field" to be a true statement?

Comment author: gjm 25 March 2015 12:24:42AM 2 points [-]

I think Lumifer is suggesting that a model can correspond accurately to reality (e.g., representing the fact that X is in a hot air balloon 30 feet above Y's current location) but none the less be useless (e.g., because all X wants to know is how to get to Vladivostok, and knowing he's in a balloon 30 feet above Y doesn't help with that). And that this is an example of how a model can be "bad" other than inaccurate correspondence with reality, which is what you were asking for a few comments upthread.

Comment author: Lumifer 25 March 2015 02:32:23PM 1 point [-]

These are correct facts.

Indeed they are. That is, actually, the point.

Recall your own question (emphasis mine): "in what ways can a model be useless that differ from it not corresponding to reality?"

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