Jiro comments on [LINK] Scott Adam's "Rationality Engine". Part III: Assisted Dying - Less Wrong

7 Post author: shminux 02 April 2015 04:55PM

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Comment author: HedonicTreader 02 April 2015 09:17:03PM 3 points [-]

I have no doubt that this is true in some cases, but it is not true in others.

If you stage a "debate" between evolutionary scientists and creationists, give both sides equal speaking time, treat both with the same respect and social credibility signals, pretend that both are equally interested in the scientific truth, then you are doing the common good a disfavor.

Because the very framing of the debate is happening in the wrong terms. It just allows people whose true rejection is "it's in the bible" or "God said so" to pretend that they're interested in something else, such as the common good or the scientific truth.

If we had true freedom of religion, the debate about voluntary euthanasia would be over (*). Logically, it's a total no-brainer. To pretend that Catholic spokespeople give two shits about the common good, and calculate some kind of utilitarian calculus and then conclude one way or another, is total bullshit.

This is not their true rejection, and everybody knows it. To let them publicly pretend otherwise is doing the true common good a disfavor, because it allows them to implicitly attack other people's freedom of religion, without explicitly having to say, "Look, that freedom of religion thing is fine as long as everybody obeys our religious demands - but not otherwise."

Because the latter is an open attack on the Schelling point of basic human rights and implies a form of defection that they do not want the rest of society to reciprocate. They are rational, instrumentally, in lying about this and pretending otherwise, but we are irrational, instrumentally, in letting it happen.

(*) There would still be discussion about euthanasaia's legal details, but the fundementals would be obvious. Perhaps it would be illegal for voluntary members of religious organizations who decide it, but that is just another form of consent.

Comment author: Jiro 03 April 2015 04:09:13AM *  0 points [-]

This is not their true rejection, and everybody knows it.

So? Just because they weren't personally convinced by an argument (because they don't go for arguments at all) doesn't mean they can't legitimately believe they have an argument that could convince someone who doesn't do the faith thing.

It's no different from wanting someone to do X and trying to convince them that X is in their own self-interest. That's probably not why you want them to do X, but so what? It's a valid reason for the purposes of convincing them.

Of course, there is good reason to be wary of someone who isn't giving you their true rejection, because motivated reasoning increases the chance of mistakes, but not giving you their true rejection isn't automatically dishonest.

Comment author: HedonicTreader 03 April 2015 04:59:12PM 0 points [-]

It means they're lying about their motivation and you give them false respect for it.

The practical reality is that they will use arguments as soldiers in a religious culture war and innocent people are going to be the victim of the practical social consequences of it.

Practical ethics implies practical memetics; if you are faced with a culture war you would do well to remember it's a war, not a benevolent debate in good faith.