Yes and Epictetus and Lumifer have explained who they will go about rationalizing this upthread

That's why I added the point about altruism being an alternative to submissiveness. But I agree that their point is basically a good one.

(In general you might read all my comments in this thread as just bringing up considerations that might be relevant so they can get discussed. I haven't come to any firm conclusions about this subject and don't intend to any time soon. Sometimes I don't bother writing my current belief state because I'm still updating and that would make my comments longer and less content-dense.)